[00:00:00] Mahan Tavakoli:  Scott Mautz, welcome to Partnering Leadership. I am thrilled to have you in this conversation with me. 

[00:00:06] Scott Mautz: I am so glad to be here, Mahan. I'm so thankful for what you do for your audience and I get a chance to talk about what I'm passionate about, so couldn't be a better day.

[00:00:15] Mahan Tavakoli:  I can't wait to learn from you and the insights you share in your book, The Mentally Strong Leader, Build the Habits to Productively Regulate Your Emotions, Thoughts, and Behaviors. But before we get to that, Scott, we'd like to get to know you a little bit better.

[00:00:33] Whereabouts did you grow up, and how did your upbringing impact the kind of person you've become? 

[00:00:38] Scott Mautz: I grew up in central New York in a little town called Baldwinsville. And Mahan, some of the formative things early in my life were based on physical limitations that I had and that I experienced.

[00:00:51] I was born with scoliosis, curvature of the spine. I was born with a form of muscular dystrophy known as Charcot Marie Tooth disease. And that. Created a body and a walk, a gait, if you will, that was unlike other kids growing up and, it caused some troubles for me, to some extent I was a victim of bullying I don't want to paint a picture like I had some bleak childhood that was all dark, but when you have some physical limitations Like I grew up with and had to deal with, it really built in me an understanding of the need for inner fortitude and an inner resilience to learn to get past your own setbacks and to keep moving forward.

[00:01:29] So I think those physical experiences early in my life shaped who I am today. And, by the way, we're going to talk about the topic that we're going to talk about today in the subtext of mental strength. 

[00:01:42] Mahan Tavakoli: As I hear that, Scott, it reminds me of Nassim Nicholas Taleb, and his thoughts about anti fragility and that breakage that sometimes makes us stronger.

[00:01:55] So it sounds like some of the challenges that you experienced in your childhood contributed to both who you've become and how you want to contribute to the back. So in addition to those experiences, what has it been that has focused you most specifically on mental strength and now writing a book on mental strength? 

[00:02:16] Scott Mautz: I think having grown up in the corporate world. I spent, 2. 5 decades of Procter and Gamble and in other large corporations that I really had a chance over time behind to see what makes great leaders great. And why achievers achieve even in the face of adversity. I really started to gain an understanding and an appreciation for kind of the secret sauce to achievement, if you will, which I propose in the book, the mentally strong leader is mental strength.

[00:02:50] Said another way in terms of definition, Mahan, and you could tell me if this makes sense to you. Mental strength is the ability to regulate your emotions, your thoughts, and your behaviors for productive outcomes, no matter what, even in adversity. In other words, it's the ability to manage internally, So you could lead externally.

[00:03:10] And I think most of your listeners, and probably you as well, Mahan, that, you need to do that to succeed intuitively, right? We all know we have to regulate our emotions, our thoughts and behaviors. But the truth is. It is really hard to do that. I grew up in organizations watching some leaders really struggle with this thing called mental strength, especially in times of adversity.

[00:03:32] And then I saw a whole cadre of other leaders that really excelled, and it started making me really interested in trying to crack this code of this thing we call mental strength. 

[00:03:42] Mahan Tavakoli:  One of the things that I see, Scott is for a whole host of reasons, a lot of the CEOs and executives I interact with are feeling themselves on their greater. Mental pressure. 

[00:03:55] So I find what you're saying is more important now as. Leaders are going through so much change and so much external pressure. 

[00:04:07] Scott Mautz: I think so, Mahan, and I think I can give you a little bit of data to support exactly what you're saying. I've been doing research on the topic of mental strength now for over, three decades, and I share a lot of that in The Mentally Strong Leader, the book.

[00:04:21] But one piece in particular really supports what you're talking about, Mahan. I surveyed and or interviewed over 3, 000 executives and asked one central question. Thinking of the highest achieving organizations that you've ever been part of that overcame the most obstacles. What were the discerning attributes of the key leaders in those times?

[00:04:44] And we found an increasing percentage over time, even past the pandemic, all the way up to the current figure. 91 percent of people described the same attributes these leaders that have. mental strength that show six mental muscles in particular, which I can describe in just a second.

[00:05:05]  To your point, with more and more strain with the world becoming higher pressure than ever. What I've seen in my research is that mental strength has emerged as a superpower of our times for leaders and in truth, it's the secret sauce for achievement.

[00:05:21] If you could figure that out, which, I'll talk about how you do that in just a moment, but does that surprise you at all behind to hear that 91 percent of 3000 executives said the discerning trait that they saw. In leaders that led them through really tough adversity to achieve was mental strength that supports what you were just saying, I would think, right?

[00:05:40] Mahan Tavakoli: It is an incredible statistic and it shows how important this is. Now, before finding out about the six mental muscles that you also go into your book, I wonder, Scott, about this challenge where some of the CEOs and leaders I talked to feel under pressure to present.

[00:06:04] of strength that might not really be there. So if you ask their team members, they would say my CEO, my leader has that mental strength and is strong. But when I talk to them, Behind closed doors in individual zoom meetings,  the reality is very different. And we'd love to get your thoughts about that, where some of the leaders feel they have the pressure on them to come across as strong, as mentally strong, as looking like they have it figured out while in reality, they feel that adds more to their mental pressures.

[00:06:47] Scott Mautz:  I have seen that Mahan, to your point, speak loudly and clearly in my research and it's one thing to promote a front of confidence as a leader, which of course you have to do. The troops want to know that you're confident. An organization is never more confident than it's a leader.

[00:07:05] So that's. But it's another thing behind the scenes if you're quietly suffering and in the mentally strong leader, I share something called the self acceptance spectrum our confidence is eroded in a range of ways, we may actually feel that quietly while we may project confidence.

[00:07:22] We actually don't feel confident at all. We might feel like an imposter. We might beat ourselves up with negative inner chatter. We might constantly be comparing to other people. We might constantly be chasing approval instead of authenticity. And showing our authentic selves all in the chase of confidence. In The Mentally Strong Leader, I share a lot of tools on how to help you build a confidence that comes from within. That's real, and that projects itself in an authentic way to the audience. To help exactly what you're talking about, that struggle that so many leaders feel where they know they have to show up as confident, but it might be a false confidence and a false front. 

[00:08:02] Mahan Tavakoli: It's not putting up a fake facade, which then erodes your confidence. It is building internally that confidence and that mental strength that also exhibits itself internally. Externally, in order to do that, you talk about six mental muscles that your book focuses in on. 

[00:08:26] Scott Mautz: Remembering that mental strength is the ability to regulate your emotions, your thoughts, and your behaviors productively, even in adversity. It turns out that there are six specific mental muscles that equate to mental strength. They are confidence, Just as we were talking about fortitude, boldness, decision making, goal focus, and even messaging.

[00:08:55] The extent to which as a leader, you're able to message positively and come across positively with a quality and an engagement to your presence. And it makes sense when you think about it. These are all skills, these mental muscles, that require self regulation to be good at it. You can't be confident if you don't constantly self regulate that negative inner chatter you hear.

[00:09:19] You can't be confident. Show fortitude and resilience if you don't constantly regulating yourself and making sure that you know how to reframe setbacks. You can't be a solid decision maker if you're not blocking out all the biases that could get in your way. You have to self regulate that. So these six mental muscles, fortitude, confidence, boldness, decision making, goal, focus and messaging equate.

[00:09:41] To mental strength and in the mentally strong leader, just so that the listener isn't feeling daunted. Wait a minute. I can't build all those muscles you're asking too much. Here's the thing, if you can learn how to build the habits that will increase those mental muscles, that mental strength, first of all, it's like training your brain for achievement.

[00:10:02] It's the cheat code for achievement. But the good news here Mahan is yeah. You don't have to improve all six muscles all the time. For example, if you went into the gym for a workout, Mahan, you wouldn't go in saying, I'm gonna work on every muscle in my body today. All day. You would go in with a plan.

[00:10:22] Maybe, I don't know, maybe Wednesday is legs. Maybe Thursday is chest and arms. I don't know. Same with mental strength. You learn which mental muscles you need to work on, and I'll explain how on that in just a minute. But then you could create your own customized mental strength training program to strengthen the muscles that you need to as you move along 

[00:10:46] Mahan Tavakoli: As you were talking about that scott I was remembering When I was younger, I did try to do that.

[00:10:53] And then for about a week afterwards, I could barely walk upstairs. So part of what you're saying makes a lot of sense, which is these are the muscles to develop. That doesn't necessarily mean you focus on all of them. All at the same time, which is why in your book, you also talk about habits and habit development.

[00:11:18] So in order to understand the process better, Scott would love to take one of the muscles and walk through some of the habit formation for that. ,

[00:11:32] Scott Mautz: In the Mentally Strong Leader, I talk about several steps, like five different steps you can take to stop imposter syndrome. I'm just going to touch on a few of the key, most important ones.

[00:11:42] The first, and this is probably the obvious part about stopping imposter syndrome, Mahan. I think you probably could guess this one but so many people skip by it, which is, first you just have to simply own your accomplishments. You really have to ask yourself Where am I underestimating and underappreciating myself?

[00:12:00] What should I give myself more credit for? Where am I assigning too much credit to luck or to other external factors? What simply would not have happened were it not for me? And in this first step, I think it's also important to pay attention to how you react when somebody gives you a compliment. You have to embrace it, not dismiss it.

[00:12:22] Sometimes, I could say this to folks, Mahan, Hey, first you need to own your accomplishments. And sometimes it can produce, Yeah, I did that, but I still feel like an imposter. So that's where this next step is so important. So first, I want you to own your accomplishments.

[00:12:40] But second, and I encourage your listeners to actually write this second step down. You have to be open to imposter discomfort. But closed to imposter thoughts. And here's what I mean by that. It goes to something in psychology circles. That's widely known. It's known as acceptance.

[00:13:01] So in other words, yes, you can have doubts about whether or not you can really be the CEO of an organization. Or you could have doubts about your ability to lead your team in that new role. But it's important to learn to be okay with that.

[00:13:16] To let that unease just sit in the background., it allows you to focus on deciding how to do that job best. Not if you can do that job. Then the second half of that is at the same time, while you're accepting that discomfort sitting in the background, you have to detach yourself from your imposter thoughts.

[00:13:37] As one fellow expert on imposter syndrome says, you almost have to think about those imposter thoughts as a bubble outside of your head. When those thoughts pop up, you have to imagine that those thoughts came from somewhere else, like an unfair critic. Those thoughts, are not trying to help you move towards the person that you want to be.

[00:13:56] So you have to remove yourself from those imposter thoughts and set them outside your body. Being okay with discomfort is one thing. Letting the thoughts enter your brain and take over is another thing. Which leads us to the third step that I'll share for imposter syndrome that I have found to be very powerful.

[00:14:11] Which is to think of your values rather than your valuation. Meaning, instead of thinking about, how do people value me in this job? What's the valuation put on me? Do people look at me and say oh, he or she is a fraud. They can't really do that job, stop worrying about that.

[00:14:30] And focus instead on your values. What's important to you in life. Are you doing that CEO job in a way consistent with who you are, what you stand for, what you want to be, what you're trying to accomplish in your life. Because imposter feelings they will boo you. But when you think of your values, doing what matters, they're sitting in the front row of your life cheering you on.

[00:15:03] So these three steps, own your accomplishments, be open to imposter discomfort, close to imposter thoughts, and thinking of your values rather than your valuation.

[00:15:11] I've been teaching that for years. To help people with imposter syndrome and in the mentally strong leader, there's a couple extra steps to that as well that you can take on. If you tend to suffer from this breach in confidence. 

[00:15:24] Mahan Tavakoli: I love that. Scott so beautifully laid out as I can. See the audience walking through and answering those questions for themselves and love the way you put it, that those imposter feelings are booing you from the cheap seats.

[00:15:42] That's true. And this gives us an opportunity and an ability to control that and then be able to focus. on values which becomes then important in making ourselves more mentally strong in reality rather than just the projection. 

[00:16:02] Scott Mautz: Very well said. I like the way you put that.

[00:16:05] In reality, rather than just projection, because imposter syndrome is so much about what we worry We're projecting to the world and when we think about in reality what's happening and the value we're bringing to the earth and to the planet That's what helps you get past that. So I like the way you put that.

[00:16:23] Mahan Tavakoli: I appreciate you sharing these thoughts and you have many more of them in your book, as you also mentioned. Now, the other thing that happens, Scott, is that we all face setbacks and something that impacts our confidence. And our strength is the ability to be resilient in the face of those setbacks. You share lenses of resilience as a tool to help leaders in transforming challenges into opportunities. We don't want setbacks, but how can we actually take those setbacks and transform them into opportunities for ourselves?

[00:17:09] Scott Mautz: And it makes sense by the way, we're talking about the fortitude muscle now, when most people think. Mental strength. One of the first things they think about is fortitude and resilience, that if you have that muscle developed, you're on your way to being mentally strong.

[00:17:21] But it's really difficult when we face setbacks. And I talk in the Mentally Strong Leader about how to reframe setbacks in your life in a proven, practical way, not in a meme like Captain Obvious of the Advice way. I'll share a couple of those tips that I share in the Mentally Strong Leader.

[00:17:38] One of the first ones is, I think is, Often the most overlooked. And I'll test it out on you, Imran. I want you to pause and think for a second about a setback, maybe, that you had in your life. Let's say, maybe within the last year or two. Anything that didn't go the way that you wanted it to that maybe frustrated you and let me know when that's like in your mind's eye and you can picture that. Got it. I have them all the time, but I have one, Scott. You and me both. I am willing to bet that if you pause for a second, as frustrating as that setback may be, You can apply the first of four lenses of resilience that I talk about in The Mentally Strong Leader, which is to apply the agreeable adversity lens.

[00:18:20] Which is, what about that adversity was actually agreeable? If you had to be honest and step back and looked at it, what can you take away from that setback? What can you learn from it? Was there something about yourself that, in truth, I know I need to improve? Was there something about the way you're approaching things?

[00:18:36] Something about a relationship? Something about your scenario? I'm willing to bet that, in fact, if you were honest There is something agreeable about that adversity and that setback, no matter how painful that it was. Is that a true statement? Absolutely, yes. And my research shows that consistently, while we intuitively know that we should be looking for the bright side in things, we don't.

[00:18:59] So while that may be simple, that's an important place to start. Second, is to remember the gratitude lens. This is what happens in times of setbacks, Mahan. We focus on what we've lost. Maybe we've lost time. Maybe we've lost a job,. Maybe we've lost a boss that we really like.

[00:19:15] Maybe we've lost a co worker. And instead of focusing on what we lose, The point is to focus on still what we have that we can be grateful for. And you can even think about it as a mathematical principle, if you'd like, that, I call the distance principle, which works like this. Think about a project that you're working on that you suffered a setback on.

[00:19:35] The distance between where you started, before you started working on that project, and where you are today, minus The misstep, and notice I called it a misstep, not a misleap. There's a reason why it's called a misstep, right? Not a misleap. Because often we exaggerate the extent to which a setback takes us backwards.

[00:19:53] So the distance between where you started on something and where you are today, minus the misstep, not the misleap, that remaining distance, is still something to be really proud of and really appreciative of, and to show gratitude for. That's the distance principle part of the gratitude lens. You can also apply the lens, it's called the respond versus react lens.

[00:20:14] And this one simply says that reacting to adversity means your attention goes to Emotions, often unhelpful emotions, emotionally carrying yourself in a most often unhelpful manner. But, instead of reacting to adversity, if you respond to adversity, that's more about action orientation. It's focused on, what am I going to do about this?

[00:20:39] What should I do next? Instead of, woe is me. And I have seen in my research, over and over again, when I ask clients that really struggle with resilience, to simply remember. React versus respond and then they remember, okay, I am not going to emotionally overreact I'm going to respond to take action. It is incredibly helpful reminder and lens and how to look at adversity Am I showing up as responding taking action or am I simply reacting in an unhelpful emotional way one last lens?

[00:21:15] Are these making sense so far Mahan 

[00:21:17] Mahan Tavakoli: Making perfect sense. I love it for so many reasons, but I'll wait until 

[00:21:21] Scott Mautz: you finish.  The fourth lens I talk about in the Mentally Strong Leader is what I call the perspective lens, which is to broaden your perspective through relationships and through remembering.

[00:21:30] Relationships means just being self aware of what your resilience building needs tend to be. And cultivate a network that you can lean on for help. So for example when I'm going through a tough time on, and I'd be curious to hear about what it's like for you, I really like a friend. I can lean on to help me laugh.

[00:21:49] I have a mentor I might reach out to for some wisdom and some perspective. Whatever your needs are. Within the context of fortitude, it's important to understand what you need when you're trying to be resilient, and to have your network cultivated and ready to lead on for help. The other half of that is, remembering, just remembering when you've gotten through adversity in the past, because quite often we will catastrophize an event, and we will forget that something happened in our past that was very similar, That we got through and maybe we're even stronger for.

[00:22:21] So that last lens is relationships and remembering. So sounds like it makes sense to you though. It 

[00:22:26] Mahan Tavakoli: does. And I love a couple of aspects of what you did there, Scott, and you do in the book. First of all, you provide these different lenses and different ones relate to Better both to the situation and to the individual.

[00:22:44] So it's not one simple answer for each and every person. The answers are different. The lenses are difference that apply to the different situations. And what I found myself doing as you were going through these was to then. separate myself from the challenge and the setback and analyze it and think about how best I would address it.

[00:23:12] It was almost as if I was now going to give Mahan some advice. on how to build resilience. So I love the questions you were asking in the process where I separated myself from that setback as opposed to before when you initially asked it, the setback was my setback. So it was part of me. 

[00:23:34] Scott Mautz: Excellent observation, Mahan, and it brings out a point about the mentally strong leaders.

[00:23:40] As I spent years researching and writing it, I really thought hard, and I really worked hard, about how to make the book A menu of tools for people that they can apply to create their own custom mental strength training program sometimes you'll pick up a book like I don't know maybe a malcolm gladwell business book and it'll be Focused on one concept and it goes really deep and it's a mind bending concept With this book, I focus on the concept of mental strength and the six core mental muscles, but I really try to create a menu so everybody, the Mahans of the world out there, can see themselves in the places they want to increase their mental strength, and pick the tool out of the over 50 tools that are right for them or the two wolves, as, after that, to create their own custom mental strength training program because I couldn't possibly expect anyone to incorporate 50 new habits into their life.

[00:24:36] But what I can do is giving them an assessment to find out what's right for them, starting with a self assessment. Where do I need to get mentally stronger? And then giving them choices and know how, scientific know how on how to build the habits, so that they're more likely to actually pick habits and create a regimen that works for them.

[00:24:54] So thank you for noticing that. I worked very hard to make that true about this book, that it be a menu. For people 

[00:25:00] Mahan Tavakoli:  As we develop this mental strength, Scott, how can you balance healthy doubt with overconfidence, especially when it comes to leadership and leadership decision making?

[00:25:14] Scott Mautz:  In the mentally strong leader in the chapter about the confidence muscle mahan, I share something called the doubt continuum. And I want you to picture a continuum. Okay, and there are four things on this continuum. Both of the far ends of the continuum are what I call danger zones, places you don't want to be.

[00:25:31] In the doubt continuum it's all about understanding that if you want to be mentally strong, you have to monitor your relationship with doubt. Notice that I'm assuming you have a relationship with doubt, because I guarantee you, you do. No human being, even the most mentally strong person I've ever met, is self doubt free.

[00:25:50] It just doesn't happen. So you have to monitor your relationship with self doubt, and the way you do that is through the doubt continuum. So again, going back , picture this continuum on both sides of the danger zones. On one side, you can be overconfident. Which is actually a thing. There's still some self doubt underlying, but you're suppressing it.

[00:26:09] And you're showing up as overconfident. On the other side, you can be paralyzed by fear. And in The Mentally Strong Leader, I talk about a whole realm of things you can do to overcome fear in its many forms. In the middle are two other gray zones where you can be perfectly confident with a balance of self doubt, but you're not, paralyzed by it.

[00:26:29] But where you're talking about is this area on the continuum that I call where you've learned to embrace healthy doubt. You understand that you have self doubt in your life, you feel a little uncertain about outcomes and maybe even skeptical, but at a level that's productive. It's not holding you back or causing paranoia, the key thing is that you're okay with not knowing everything and you're confident in your ability to figure things out along the way.

[00:26:56] And, people often ask me, Scott, what mental muscle do you work on? Surprisingly, I have wisps of confidence that I still have to work on primarily, comparing to others. I still do that no matter how, and I teach this stuff, Mahan, and I still do that, right? But I can say that.

[00:27:11] I am able to embrace healthy doubt primarily because I've developed a skill of being okay with not knowing everything in the moment and believing in my ability to figure things out. And when you can believe in your ability to figure it out along the way. That is embracing the spirit of healthy doubt, and it's something critical for mental strength.

[00:27:32] Mahan Tavakoli: So part of it is having the doubt as well as recognizing you are able to overcome. So marrying those two enables you to balance that healthy doubt with the confidence that it takes to be able to move forward. 

[00:27:53] Scott Mautz: That's exactly right. Yes, that's exactly right. And being overconfident is just as much a thing as fear of failure.

[00:28:00] Now, occurrence wise, , Mahan, this probably isn't surprising to you at all. There is a much higher percentage of us, and in fact, depending on the data, as many as 80 percent of us experience fear of failure at some times, right? Overconfident is a far less percentage of the portion, of the population, maybe 15 percent or less.

[00:28:19] Then, a whole host of us sit in that middle. And finding that balance is really key to being mentally strong. 

[00:28:24] Mahan Tavakoli: Scott, as you have done all of these interviews and surveys, I wonder if you have found patterns and also differences across demographics, across cultures. 

[00:28:37] Scott Mautz: Yes, and it depends on the muscle that you're talking about. Let's just follow through on the confidence muscle, for example, probably not surprisingly, we do see in our data that. There tend to be more pronounced issues on the confidence front from higher level female executives than male executives.

[00:28:54] That probably surprises very few people and there are cultural signs depending on the culture that you're in about what it's like to show up. What that looks like as a boss and, boldness that's one of the mental muscles. It's part of mental strength.

[00:29:10] Boldness in the United States looks very different than how boldness can show up culturally in Asia, for example. Yes, you're right, Mahan. There are differences. What I was very careful to do in the book, The Mentally Strong Leader, working on this for so long, is to find, neutral ground where universal truths are presented while acknowledging differences that can occur across race, gender, and culture types.

[00:29:34] But really, focusing on the universal truths that would be of the most benefit to everybody. Excellent excellent question. 

[00:29:41] Mahan Tavakoli: Now in doing that, Scott, I know you have The assessments and lots of questions in your book. One of the other challenges that I see is that our self perception is very different than the way the rest of the world perceives us or interacts with us what value is there to getting others perceptions as we look to become better?

[00:30:07] More mentally strong. 

[00:30:10] Scott Mautz:  I'm gonna give you an example for those of you that maybe aren't watching the video right now I've pulled up the mental strength self assessment That's part of the mentally strong leader the 50 question assessment that helps you determine How mentally strong you are and how you score on each mental muscle within and I think what you're talking about is really important In some cases, let me see here Oh, there's questions where I actually invite you as you take it in to make sure you're getting the perspective videos of other people.

[00:30:37] So let's see here for example question number 41. This is to help measure your decision making capability. How often would you or others that know you say you're decisive? So in the assessment there are key places where I encourage you, I'm getting at exactly what you're talking about Mahan. The reality that you may score yourself differently than someone else.

[00:31:01] So in the assessment, I'm encouraging you to think about the point of view of other people. And some people have told me that I've taken the self assessment. I've even said, I took it for myself. Then I asked someone who knows me really well to listen to my answers and refute or support them so that I could get a better adjusted true score.

[00:31:21] To understand my true mental strength through the self assessment. Great point, and if you think about it, it's part of mental strength itself, to be confident enough. That you're willing to take the hard look at what you need to work on.

[00:31:36] Even if that includes talking to about it with other people and hearing hard truths back. 

[00:31:41] Mahan Tavakoli:  It helps confirm in some areas. It helps you see new opportunities for development in other areas. So that self assessment can be very helpful. Now, before finding out more about your book and how the audience can connect with you, Scott. Would love to know, are there other resources that you typically find yourself recommending as leaders are looking to dig deeper, understand themselves and become stronger mentally and otherwise?

[00:32:16] Scott Mautz: I really encourage people to use as a resource, feedback. Really having the courage to ask people who know them well. And even ones that they're peripherally related to at work and in life.

[00:32:28] To get insight on how am I showing up in my fortitude, in my confidence? How bold am I coming across? Do I seem like a risk taker? How am I doing in my decision making? Do I seem to you like I'm focused on my goals often enough? How am I messaging as a leader? Are those messages coming across positively often enough?

[00:32:50] Do I seem like I'm engaged and have a quality of presence? And in my intent, is it true and is it pure and is it integrous? So I encourage people to be mentally strong Fight that distaste that displeasure that discomfort we can feel when we seek out Feedback from others it can only help us in our journey to become mentally stronger 

[00:33:11] Mahan Tavakoli: It is a great practice and as you said scott, it is really hard for us to seek it And be genuinely open to it so being really open and receptive to that feedback. 

[00:33:25] Scott Mautz: That's right. I think the only thing behind harder than regulating your emotions, thoughts and behaviors, productively mental strength is having someone tell you're not regulating your emotions, your thoughts and behaviors very productively.

[00:33:36] Mahan Tavakoli: Scott, I really appreciate the many. Practical ideas. You've shared both in your book and in this conversation as well. We'd love to know how can the audience find out more about your book and follow your work? 

[00:33:54] Scott Mautz: Sure. If you want to learn about the Mellie strong leader and the workshop that goes along with it, you can go to Scott mounts.

[00:34:00] com M a U T Z Scott mounts. That's all one scottmounts. com. And I put together a gift for your show today as well. Mahan, if folks are interested, they can go to scottmounts. com slash Mentally strong gift. That's all one phrase, and you'll get a free 60 page downloadable PDF that has that self assessment.

[00:34:21] If you want to take it early and start thinking about mental strength before you pick up the book as well as questions in their prompts to help you get the most out of the book. So you can go to Scott mounts dot com slash mentally strong gift to get that free 60 page PDF with the 50 question self assessment in the prompts to help you get the most out of.

[00:34:41] the book, the mentally strong leader. 

[00:34:43] Mahan Tavakoli:  I really appreciate. the conversation and your book, Scott, the mentally strong leader, build the habits to productively regulate your emotions, thoughts, and behaviors.

[00:34:56] Thank you so much for this conversation. Scott mounts. Thank you so much for having me.