361 Authentic Leadership: Building Influence Through Storytelling and Connection with Tricia Brouk | Partnering Leadership Global Thought Leader

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[00:00:00] Mahan Tavakoli: . Tricia Brouk, welcome to Partnering Leadership. I am thrilled to have you in this conversation with me. It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Tricia. I can't wait to talk about the influential voice saying what you mean for lasting legacy before we do though, we'd love to know a little bit more about you, Tricia, whereabouts you grew up and how your upbringing.

impact who you've become. 

[00:00:25] Tricia: I grew up in Arnold, Missouri, a small town, 20 miles south of St. Louis. I grew up on a farm. We had cows and chickens and lived next to my grandparents where we had a well for water. And we sat outside under a big tree after dinner. My grandmother had an eighth grade education.

And I knew that I would be leaving there as soon as I possibly could,  that there was more for me.  Thank goodness my mother enrolled me in dance lessons. So at seven years old, I met Sharon DeNoyer McGuire and her mother, Lillian DeNoyer.  They had a dance school in Arnold, Missouri called DeNoyer Dance, and they taught me.

How to see more for myself. I was also a very talented dancer. I worked really hard. I imagined myself dancing with Baryshnikov in New York City, just like Kelsey Kirkland in the Nutcracker on PBS. And I thought I would go to New York City as soon as I was 16. That didn't happen. My parents said, you're going to college.

And Luckily, I was able to get a full scholarship to Stevens college in Columbia, Missouri, where I studied dance. I had an accelerated three year, two summer experience. So I did move to New York city, not when I was 16, but when I was 20 and pursued my career here danced all over the world. And at 28, I danced with Bresnikov.

[00:01:57] Mahan Tavakoli: Oh, wow. 

[00:02:00] Tricia: So I manifested my dreams from when I was seven and didn't even know it. I definitely became the person that I am. The woman who is disciplined, who has grit, tenacity doesn't take no for an answer and I have a high risk tolerance and that is all from being a professional dancer. 

[00:02:22] Mahan Tavakoli: What a beautiful.

Origin story, Tricia, you talk about this, you teach it, it's part of your book, we could spend the rest of the conversation, just finding out more about different elements of that origin story, whether the grandmother who had an eighth grade education, how she inspired you, the upbringing on the farm, all the ups and downs.

In dance, helping me connect with you. So you do a beautiful job with this. Now I've interviewed both for the podcast. And a lot of times I interact with CEOs and executives who have rich experiences and backgrounds, but have no idea how to share it in a way that. allows other people to be interested to want to find out more to connect with them.

How should we go about that? 

[00:03:21] Tricia: Thank you for that, Mahan. I think what's really important and valuable for your audience is that your personal story is how you're going to connect with people.

I lead a team. I have a 19 percent team and I lead them by connecting with them personally and that means they understand that what I care about, how I care about it, what my mission is. I know you care very much about purpose here on this amazing show. And  when you are aligned with your purpose and you can share that origin story so that you become relatable to the people you are leading,  they will want to follow you.

You can't ask people to follow you. You have to inspire people to follow you.  And in order to lead excellently, it requires you to allow some of that personal backstory to come to the forefront. 

[00:04:20] Mahan Tavakoli: So in order to do that, Tricia, I'm also a big advocate and love the hero's journey, Joseph Campbell, and have interviewed , authors on different aspects of storytelling.

, one of the challenges that many of the executives and CEOs that I interact with, coach, and see have is that on one end, we're telling them it shouldn't be about you. And on the other end, we're saying you need to be able to share your origin story in a way people can relate to you.

[00:04:53] Tricia: Imagine narrating a story. It doesn't necessarily mean boasting about your history. It's more about narrating a story that you happen to be the main character of. And when you narrate that story and you include those details you can make the person, invite the person, inspire the person to have a feeling connected to the story you are narrating, then it's in service of them and it is not about you.

[00:05:24] Mahan Tavakoli: That feeling is really important. In addition to that, as you mentioned, narrating, giving some of the details of that story that gives hook points for people to relate to. I joke about the fact that we listen for commonalities. So if someone went to the same high school as I did 20 years before or afterwards, I all of a sudden feel a connection to them.

So we give people those hooks. Hook points is important for relationship building. 

[00:05:56] Tricia: I agree completely. And  whether it's where you grew up, what your favorite meal is, how you celebrated holidays or who your pet was, when you share those details, And that humanness, then we, as leaders can connect deeply to our teams, to our communities, to our colleagues.

I'll share a quick story with you, Mahan.  I volunteer at an animal shelter in New York City called by the way, and I was a handler to one of the kittens when we went to the view, the television show, The View. There were four dogs and two cats and each of these beautiful animals had a handler and we're in the green room where they take everyone.

 We enter the green room and the dogs immediately go to the bathroom on the floor.  So it was like, welcome to the view. Now we have to clean up the pee. So everybody became part of cleaning up the mess. We all pitched in to clean up the mess, right? Literally. Then I noticed I was sitting back and I was noticing Everyone in the room, no matter what age, gender, culture, socioeconomic background, position at the view, no matter who they were, no matter what their political beliefs were, they all came into this room of animals and became one.

They were united in their thinking. And that is why Sharing stories from a personal point of view can unite us in our thinking, and I'm not saying in our opinions or our beliefs. I'm saying unite us in our thinking, and that's what exquisite leadership does. 

[00:07:45] Mahan Tavakoli: It can do that, and I love the way you told that story.

A couple of things about it. First of all, you are not the hero of that story. This is not how it works. Awesome. Tricia was, you pulled everyone in there and everyone did the cleaning or whatever else, therefore you were successful at it. The other part of it is, I start out with a question about the origin story, giving people a chance to talk a little bit about themselves, because Whether it is for authors or for leaders, we want to know who are you, what is your story, what are some of your values and purpose that you talk about in your book, before I am willing to listen to your ideas or be willing to follow you.

Such 

[00:08:32] Tricia: a great point. That's a spot on. Reflection and analysis. Absolutely. 

[00:08:38] Mahan Tavakoli: So now, Tricia, you talk about cutting through the noise and we live in a very noisy world, whether it is in part because of technology in part because of all the content, all the noise around us. So how can leaders in wanting to communicate more effectively cut through some of this noise?

[00:09:02] Tricia: I think it starts first with listening. When you practice the art of active listening and you don't say something right away, it gives you the opportunity to understand how to respond instead of react.

[00:09:19] Mahan Tavakoli: And I love that you say listening as an act of love because doing it and whether it is in our personal relationships. I watch that we don't let people put a period at the end of their sentence before we jump in and say what we want to say or in organizations is truly an act of love. 

[00:09:46] Tricia: It really is.

And when you lean back and you give your team an opportunity to feel heard and seen, that is the most generous act of love. and support you can show a team member. And I know it might sound a little different to say as a leader, showing your team that you love them, but this is what I mean.

It's the respect, it's the love, it's the dignity that you're giving them by allowing them to fully express themselves and be heard and be seen, which is great. Ultimately, all we want as human beings is to be heard and seen and loved. 

[00:10:28] Mahan Tavakoli: How can we actually listen better?

[00:10:32] Tricia: It starts by being mindful that in that moment, you need to focus and give all of your attention on the person sharing their information with you, because inside of that moment, there might be a nugget that you are going to be able to run with. Inside of that moment,  there might be an opportunity for you to hear what is going on below the surface so that you can really support your team member or your colleague. And , it goes back to the responding instead of reacting. Leaders want to solve the problem as quickly and efficiently as possible.

So we hurry up and we jump in when we pause, when we get still, and we practice that active listening, it might be counterintuitive to our desire to hurry up and solve the problem for the person. But it really does is it gives us that space. to come up with a solution or a conversation towards a solution that may actually be better in the long run.

[00:11:40] Mahan Tavakoli: I find whether it is with the executives, I work with Tricia or myself, it is easier said than done. It is really hard to focus on the person because , we are able to process information a lot faster than people speak, fully dedicate our mind space to that listening.

It requires effort determination, which is why I go back to what you said, listening as an act of love. This is a critical way and effective way of showing love and care for the people we interact with. 

[00:12:23] Tricia: I'd like to invite your audience and the leaders who are listening to this to think about active listening as a discipline.

You probably go to the gym and do your bicep curls you probably eat healthy food consistently as a high performing leader. You hopefully meditate the act of listening is the same kind of discipline. You have to make the decision to put down your phone, make the decision to stop multitasking, make the decision to focus 110 percent on the person you're having a conversation with, because ultimately, you will eliminate more time.

You will become more efficient because you'll have all of your attention on that person. The conversation will be potent. It will end sooner because there won't be confusion. So you're actually creating efficiencies by having the discipline of active listening. 

[00:13:26] Mahan Tavakoli: And it is radically different for people and we are pleasantly surprised when in our interactions, including in the organization, someone actually listens.

So it is something to exercise because it then becomes a leadership superpower because we aren't used to too many people listening to us. 

[00:13:52] Tricia: And imagine a room full of people around a conference table and everybody's talking at each other. , visualize yourself being the leader who is sitting back and watching all of this, taking it all in for the 50 minutes of the 60 minute meeting.

You're taking it all in. You have not said a thing at the end of that meeting. You now have all of the information that you need to assess what to say, how to say it for the most impact that is exceptional leadership. You don't have to be talking all the time. In order to lead 

[00:14:33] Mahan Tavakoli: Now, in order to do that, you also talk about overcoming limiting.

Beliefs. How can we overcome limiting beliefs in order to be able to communicate more effectively? 

[00:14:47] Tricia: I like to think of this as what are the stories you're telling yourself in terms of those limiting beliefs? Or what are the excuses you're making that are your limiting beliefs? I don't have enough time.

I'll do it when my kids are in college. I'm too short, I'm too tall, whatever it is, I'm not in shape yet. Those are excuses, not limiting beliefs. That's the first part of this. The second part is What's the truth and what's the lie? I used to say I accidentally became a choreographer and then I accidentally became a director.

Those are both lies. I was a dancer for my entire life. I was completely set up for the skill set of choreography. I am extremely organized and I know how to cast well. That makes me a good director. None of this was by accident. And so when I stepped into the truth of who I am and how I serve and let go of the lie that I accidentally became anything, that is when.

All of these limiting beliefs went away and I was able to create the Big Talk Academy and support all of these thought leaders and all of these people in public service who I can help change policy and have a much bigger impact and leave that lasting legacy that I talk about in the influential voice.

So I think when you are as a human being having a limiting belief, pause, and this is how I get rid of it. . Remove it from the moment. Huh, that's funny. Huh, that's funny. And then I let it go.

[00:16:42] Mahan Tavakoli: That's a powerful way to reflect on it, because I find in some instances, it's limiting beliefs that we have. In other instances, it's the stories that they tell. Some leaders get used to telling other people in an attempt at modesty that then become limiting beliefs in and of themselves in their own minds.

So it's great to take a step back and say that's funny. Yes. Now you also talk about the role of courage. And then vulnerability being truthful and showing empathy which are very hard to balance. We'd love to know your thoughts on how those play a role in being able to have more influence with our voice.

[00:17:39] Tricia: Many times leaders need to have hard conversations, and that requires courage. It takes courage to have a hard conversation with someone who is not up to doing the job that you've asked them to do. That conversation is going to require courage, and as leaders, Having the empathy to know that what you're saying could potentially make someone feel a certain way also requires you to be a vulnerable human.

And what that means is being in the present moment with the person you're having the heart conversation with. Don't avoid the person, make sure you stay in the space long enough so that you can listen and receive. So I think as leaders, when we embody courage, empathy, kindness, and vulnerability, we can have those hard conversations with the least amount of fallout.

[00:18:47] Mahan Tavakoli: Tricia, I see, two opposite extremes. Some believe that they are showing radical candor, even though this is not how Kim Scott talks about it in the book. A lot of times people don't read a book, read the title, and then based on the title, they use it as an excuse for Lack of empathy in the way they are communicating while on the other side, I also see people and I work with a couple of teams where they tiptoe around and they think , they are showing empathy, they're showing care.

So there is a need for that balance. How can we do that though? . , 

[00:19:32] Tricia: It goes back to courage, Mahan. I have hard conversations with my team all the time. And the first thing that I do is I start with, I really appreciate all of the work that you're doing here. And I would love to know from you, Anything that I'm missing that I don't know that's going on behind the scenes so that they can come to me with any kind of challenges that they're having  and if a team member is not performing at the level that I need them to or there's Something going on that is out of alignment with our values at the big talk  then I will give them an opportunity to share what's going on.

Maybe there's something going on in their personal life. And if there is no course correction, and let's say I have to have a hard conversation about letting, a team member go. I will always tell them and share and communicate the value that they have brought to the company, the appreciation I have had in our time together, and that this is no longer the right fit.

And this is the most important part, the silence. Allowing for the space so that there is silence for the person to hear, process, and respond. So I think anybody who is tiptoeing around the truth and the honesty of a hard conversation is hurting themselves and the other person. And anybody who is so radically candid that they don't care about how someone else is going to feel, is also a leadership style that's based on fear.

So giving the truth of the situation, how you communicate it, and then the space afterwards to receive from the other person. 

[00:21:30] Mahan Tavakoli: Now, Tricia, you also talk about the importance of feedback loops.. How do you recommend for leaders to do that? I 

[00:21:40] Tricia: think just having calls and getting feedback, and this is something that I do with my team.

Every time I do a training or a workshop or a masterclass of some sort, they're all on the call with me supporting the back end. And I will always ask them, I welcome your feedback. What could I have done better?  And when you open up that conversation with your team from the beginning, what can I do better?

Then it becomes part of the culture. And when you ask it, you're going to get the truth. So they're not afraid to tell you the truth. So creating a culture from the beginning that you as the leader will always ask for feedback. And here's the other part of it. Take the feedback sometimes So that your team sees that you are actually implementing some of their feedback  Then you've created this relationship where feedback isn't a scary thing for anybody 

[00:22:38] Mahan Tavakoli: when you seek the feedback, you need to acknowledge it and actually act on it. Now, one of the other things you mentioned, Tricia, is you talk about the fear of speaking out. . How can leaders create a kind of environment that reduces the fear of speaking out?

[00:22:55] Tricia: I love this question and I don't want to give your audience the idea that you should have more meetings. However, I do think it's important for there to be an environment.

Maybe it's quarterly where everybody gets into the room and the leader says, I want to hear what's going on with everybody. And it's literally a conversation about what's going on with everybody. And that goes back to the listening. And when you give everyone an opportunity and you set up an environment  where everyone's voice matters, and you're actually showing them that you're willing to listen, then that fear can take a backseat.

[00:23:36] Mahan Tavakoli: Meetings in most instances are unproductive because they don't have a clear purpose. What you're suggesting has a clear purpose. One other thing I would love to touch on. You talk about recognizing truth versus lies.

It 

[00:23:53] Tricia: goes back to really thinking, okay, is this a truth or is this a lie I'm telling myself? Am I really not capable of making a film, becoming a dancer in New York City? Is that the truth or the lie? The truth is I studied dance. I know how to do it. I can actually buy a plane ticket from Missouri and go to New York City.

 I know how to get a job so I can pay for my apartment. All of that is the truth. And if you break it down one step at a time, you realize the lie that I can't move to New York City to become a dancer is just a lie.  The truth is I know how to take every single step and make every action happen so that I can Become the dancer I want to be in New York City.

So that's how I think about the difference between truth or lie.  Take a moment, analyze what you're telling yourself, determine how the lie is actually a truth, by building on it step by step. 

[00:24:56] Mahan Tavakoli: It connects to what you mentioned about limiting stories that we tell ourselves and gut checking that, seeing what the truth is and what the lie is.

Now for The folks listening to this conversation, Tricia, where would you tell them to start? 

[00:25:16] Tricia: I would love for your audience to think about starting with the listening and ask someone how they're doing and really listen.

So I'm asking your audience to actually help amplify and elevate voices of others first and see how that feels. See what happens. And once you do that, You are going to be able to be an influential voice in ways you didn't even know possible. 

[00:25:48] Mahan Tavakoli: What a beautiful message. By becoming influential and having an influential voice through listening to others and elevating them.

Now, Tricia, for the audience to learn more about the influential voice, connect with you, follow your work, learn from you, where we descend them to. 

[00:26:12] Tricia: First, thank you, Mahan. You are an excellent, exceptional listener. I really appreciate being here with you today.

And your audience can find me at trishabrooke. com. . And I would love to give your audience a special gift, a free visualization of how to be an influential voice. And it is at trishabrooke. com forward slash. Power, it's a powerful visualization that will support you and your audience.

[00:26:42] Mahan Tavakoli: Trisha, what a wonderful joy it's been having a conversation with you on the influential voice saying what you mean for lasting legacy. Thank you so much for joining me in this conversation. Trisha Brooke.