247 Leadership Lessons from Decades of Executive Search and Placing High Performing CEOs with Paul Rothenberg | Greater Washington DC DMV Changemaker

***DISCLAIMER: Please note that the following AI-generated transcript may not be 100% accurate and could contain misspellings or errors.***

[00:00:00] Mahan Tavakoli: Paul Rothenberg, welcome to Partnering Leadership. I am thrilled to have you in this conversation with me. 

[00:00:06] Paul Rothenburg: Thank you, Mahan. It is a pleasure to be here. I don't see you as much as I'd like to these days, so just to see your smiling faces is a big plus and I'm very honored and somewhat humbled that you have asked me to be a part of your podcast.

[00:00:22] Mahan Tavakoli: Paul. It is such an incredible joy for me, having had the honor of having known you now for more than 20, 25 years, having seen the significant difference you have made in the community, whether L g w recruiting some of the top ceo. For impactful nonprofits in our region and having been involved all throughout the community.

So I can't wait to share some of your leadership lessons with the partnering leadership community. Paul, first off, whereabouts did you grow up?

[00:00:58] Paul Rothenburg: I grew up in Detroit, Michigan. My father owned grocery stores and it was interesting.

One of them was right across from Motown, so my dad was on first named Bases with Barry Gordy and Smokey Robertson and all the people that we know, and they would come into a store. They were right across the street from him. Occasionally after school I would jump on a bus and go down to the store and always in hopes of seeing some ary and I never did , I never saw anybody

[00:01:33] Mahan Tavakoli: So then what did you want to grow up to do and become Paul?

[00:01:39] Paul Rothenburg: I had no idea what I wanted to do. But I did go to Michigan State. I got a scholarship there. I was accepted to Michigan and Michigan State. And gee, I was trying to make up my mind. And then I got a notice in the mail that I got a scholarship to Michigan State and I could still hear my father booming from a room in the house.

That's where he is going cause it's cheaper and that would be good . And I went to Michigan State. My mother wanted me to go into hotel and restaurant management. She wanted me to be a hospital administrator. And when I got to the meat cutting course and the soup making course, she said, that's not me.

I don't care about what cuts come from where. And so I switched to advertising and journalism, and that's what I graduated in. 

[00:02:35] Mahan Tavakoli: You ended up going into the Marine Corps? How did that come about, Paul? 

[00:02:39] Paul Rothenburg: Oh, that was a real shock. One day I was happily indulging and graduating from college, and the next day I was on a bus for Paris Island.

 I'm not sure if I had sobered up yet , but they sobered me up in a big hurry. And then I was in the Marines which was quite an experience. As carefree as I was, that grounded you in a real quick way. What they do at Para Island very simply is tear you down.

Into sort of a zero quotient, and then try to build you back up the way they want. I was in for six years. I was in the reserves part of it a couple times. This was Vietnam era or just the beginning? 1963 if people can remember back that far. I didn't know exactly what Vietnam was when I signed up for the Marine Corps, but I did find out pretty quickly.

and I had two occasions where I actually started to go over to Vietnam, but circumstances ended up that I never went, which was a lucky thing. Likely. So 

[00:03:51] Mahan Tavakoli: you ended up getting a job at Detroit News. 

[00:03:54] Paul Rothenburg: I went to work in the marketing department.

Then I became the public relations manager of the Detroit News. And at the time, I was going to law school at night because I thought I was gonna be a lawyer. And that went along fine. But when I became public relations manager, I weighed the two jobs. Let me see. One is sitting behind a desk writing briefs, and the other, the public relations department is out in the community having fun and talking to all these people, which 1:00 AM am I going to do?

So I eventually left law school and didn't complete it. At the time I worked for the Detroit News, which was the largest evening newspaper in America. I had 12,500 people reporting to me, and I was young. I was 35 years old, maybe even less than that. then I became vice president of circulation and our parent company wanted me to go to Vineland, New Jersey and run a subsidiary, and I went to Vineland. , which is the tomato capital of New Jersey for whatever that's worth. Tomato capital of New Jersey. Okay. You can see where this is going . And I said, you know what? I don't think so.

I'm not coming, I'm not going to Vineland, New Jersey. Tomatoes or not. I'm not doing that. And I came back and instead of saying what a great time I had I turned my letter of resignation into the company, which went over like a rotten tomato we've 

[00:05:37] Mahan Tavakoli: given you this big opportunity to go to the tomato capital of New Jersey and this is how you repay us.

[00:05:43] Paul Rothenburg: That's right. And that's exactly what it was. They were quite angry. I was upset about everything. And I started a newspaper consulting firm in association with a large national advertising company. I traveled throughout the United States and consulted with newspapers. And I really enjoyed that. That was a lot of fun. A lot of 'em, small newspapers and you could really make a difference in helping them manage their operations.

[00:06:11] Mahan Tavakoli: Football I'm curious if all industries have been impacted over the past 20, 25 years. There aren't many that could rival what has happened in the news, most especially in the paper news business. What have been the transitions you have seen and where do you think that is headed?

[00:06:35] Paul Rothenburg: Back up, Mahan. I went to a convention sometime earlier in my career, and at this convention was this whole bank of what was then computers. It was a demonstration by a Japanese computer company and. At the end, they spewed out this roll of paper, which was a newspaper.

And I looked at the computer and I remember saying to one of my friends, , that is going to be the demise of the newspaper industry. Not only is the newspaper industry changing, but it's shrinking like crazy. The local newspapers are being bought up by conglomerates. They're cutting their staff like crazy.

They're doing nothing but using Associated Press and other forms like that for their news. And it's really a shame what's gonna happen to newspapers, the paper side. Some say I really like to read and hold a newspaper and get the ink in my hands, but the new generation isn't reading newspapers, they're getting their news on their phones or wherever.

So I think that eventually it's going to be specialty newspapers only, and you're gonna see your general news coming exclusively from electronic means. 

[00:08:18] Mahan Tavakoli: It is incredible what has happened. And I don't want to take us too much off track, but I've been doing a lot on artificial intelligence also for the podcast.

And a lot of people are fascinated with, whether it's chat, G P T or other forms of generative ai, which are very capable at putting out content. And I think in a content rich world, it's also going to make the digital. Versions have a harder time. So it's not just a paper that is going to have a hard time.

The digital versions are gonna have a harder time, but that's a different story for a different time when we can talk about the future of the news business. But what then brought you to Washington, DC 

[00:09:01] Paul Rothenburg: I had my own consulting company and a friend from the Washington Star, Jack Brown, who was the controller of the Washington Star, which folded, was now the Vice President of Finance of the Washington Times, a brand new newspaper.

And he called me and said, you gotta come here to give us a hand. And I said I could come for two days. Two days . He said, come on. I got there. I stayed for a week. And. Then they asked me to consult with them. The newspaper started in late May, and I got there in the first part of July. They were having a very difficult time getting the newspaper out on getting started.

It was, they had quality people. But it's really tough to start a newspaper, especially against the Washington Post if you're thinking about it. And in my newspaper career, I knew all the people at the Washington Post and I'd been to Catherine Graham's house and I knew Donnie really well and things like that.

But I consulted for a couple of months. And then I guess it was in February of 1983, one of the owners called me and said, I wanted to have lunch with you, or dinner in McClean. And he offered me the job of vice president, general manager. And I went home and discussed it. And my then girlfriend, I guess it would be we weren't married yet.

I said what do you think? And she said, when do we leave

That was it. I called the next day. I became a vice president, general manager of the newspaper. It was a terrific experience. It was great to start a newspaper in the, likely you can call it the capital of the world if you will. Apologies to London, and I really enjoyed it.

I agreed to stay for five years and then I said I'd like to leave. And the reason is that leadership, when you first begin to grow and birth an organization is a lot different than how you approach a sustaining endeavor and how you move forward from there. And I spent all my time being the birth father or mother too, depending on what you want to say in the newspaper.

And I thought that then it was best to leave to others. That's an interesting 

[00:11:53] Mahan Tavakoli: perspective, Paul. With respect to taking a different skill set, set capabilities to grow an organization, a startup organization, then run one that is more established, what are the differences that you see between what it takes for someone that can maintain an organization versus the startup phase?

[00:12:18] Paul Rothenburg: You are literally establishing new processes, procedures. I changed the entire advertising structure. I put in a new HR system. I helped Jack change the finances. That's something you don't do when you have an established organization. I had to establish relationships with the editorial department, sometimes there's a schism between the business and the editorial side.

But since I had come from the newspaper side and had once been a reporter back in my early days I understood the reporting process and the editorial process. And so the idea of trying to build all that versus taking an established marketing program, if you will, and then building on it, is a lot different than if you have an established presence in a community, which we didn't have any of that. So it's two different skill sets. 

One is literally birthing, the other is building. 

[00:13:31] Mahan Tavakoli: I would love to get your thoughts also, Paul, you spent many years in executive recruiting.

I love how you had set five years and you moved along. One of the challenges I see in many organizations, most especially CEOs including nonprofits, and I know you've placed some outstanding presidents and CEOs of nonprofits, and we can talk about those. Is that there is as Whitney Johnson and I talked to her for the podcast also talks about an s-curve of growth.

There is an S-curve where each individual professional and c e o goes through that initial overwhelm and not necessarily knowing exactly what you're doing, then hitting that productivity curve where it's a marriage of experience with insights and energy and that s curves flattens out at a certain period of time where it might make sense for there to be a transition would love to get your thoughts on that since you had thought from the beginning, I'll stay five years and move on. Is that something that makes sense ? More senior executive or c e o roles? 

[00:14:51] Paul Rothenburg: I think it depends on the organization and what the challenges are. Rather than, there is a rule of thumb I think it depends a lot on where the organization is, what their issues are, where they are in the marketplace.

So mine was a little different at the Washington Times than. , others are going to find themselves. I think there's a correlation between the two of my being at the Washington Times and helping to start it.

None of the people on the editorial or the business side that actually were there at the very beginning lasted more than three or four months.

[00:15:39] Mahan Tavakoli: Paul, as you started, and ran Washington Times, you also got very involved in the community, lots of different organizations that you've been involved over the years with as well. One of them that is, I know close to your heart and close to my heart is you were the first ever class of leadership creator Washington back in 1987.

Now my girls make fun of me sometimes when I talk about 1990 something. They say that's last century . So I don't know what they would say 1987, but that is really long time ago. First class of L G W. Why did he get involved in this new organization, new program, leadership grade at Washington? What was that experience like for you?

[00:16:29] Paul Rothenburg: I remember very well. I was sitting at my desk at the Washington Times. Somebody when I came to Washington said you had to be involved in three things. The Board of Trade make-a-Wish Foundation and Goodwill. So I became involved in the Board of Trade and 

I was on one of their committees. I was the assistant and the head of the committee was Barbara Blu, who was a founder of Leadership Washington. It wasn't called Leadership Greater Washington then. And she had been involved, I think in Atlanta. Yes.

Before. Barbara called me on the telephone and said, you owe me $1,700 . I said, what? She said, send me a check for $1,700. You're in the first class of Leadership Washington. I said, what is Leadership Washington? She said, do you trust me? I said, yes. She says, send me the damn check.

So I sent the check , and that was the first class, which is Mahan. It was so different than I think it what it is today. I can remember discussions about who we are and what we should be doing and how we should protect ourselves. It was a very interesting year.

It was 1987. Liquor flowed. I don't know what was more fun. The classes that we undertook or the long after hour get-togethers that we had , which I know they don't do anymore, but there's still lots. That's what they 

[00:18:15] Mahan Tavakoli: tell you, Paul. There's still a lot bug. 

[00:18:20] Paul Rothenburg: I would get home at two and three in the morning there's lots of great stories, and since there were just, I think 40 of us in the first class, if that then we were expected to sit on the board. I was program chairman for a couple of years right after that because they wanted someone who came through the program.

There was nobody except the first and second class that really was involved in that. So it was a lot of fun and it was great to see the organization grow. But I really enjoyed it 

[00:18:55] Mahan Tavakoli: and you have been a great champion over the years as well as, Barbara has stayed as involved as she can.

I had a conversation with her also. What a magnificent woman with a great story of her own in helping founder organization, which I believe for a whole host of reasons has become even more significant in the region. 

People want a connection to purpose, want a connection for making a difference. 

 Which is one of the values that you have brought to the countless number of organizations you have been involved with.

Paul if I was to read the list of the organizations that you have served on the board and in many instances been a chairperson of that would take about an hour of the episode. So we won't focus on every single one of 'em from thank you board of Trade to the Fairfax Chamber, DC Chamber, big Brothers, so on and so forth.

I do wanna touch on a couple that you've been involved for a very long time with. Played a critical role also as a recruiter, because eventually you ended up at the McCormick Group as a executive recruiter went on to become a VP and worked there. But a couple of organizations that you played a significant role in, would love to know a little bit of the background of those.

You've been involved in Goodwill of Greater Washington for almost 40 years long history that you have with Goodwill, and you help recruit Katherine Malloy. I also had a conversation with her. Catherine as a magnificent leader I knew her from her W G M S days. We were a client of her, so I love Catherine from before she was in Goodwill, but she was also such a transformative.

leader for Goodwill. What was it that got you to bring Catherine and how did you get her to accept to become the presidency of Goodwill of Greater Washington?

[00:21:07] Paul Rothenburg: I think luck had a lot to do with that. The McCormick group had the assignment to find a new President, c e o At the time I was the chairman, so there was a little inside there of how we got the job. But we had a stellar cast. people who wanted the job.

It was a really well thought of position and the organization was in pretty good shape. And somebody mentioned to me, which is the way the recruiting business goes, in looking for a candidate. You go up a tree trunk and out the branches and you start talking to people.

And somebody mentioned Catherine and she at the time was at W G M S and vice president of many radio stations. And I called her and I knew her from the Board of Trade, and I said that I'd like you to consider. and she was just as silent as could be. She didn't say anything for the longest time.

And she said, let me call you back. And she called me back and she said,

I think I'm interested. Do you know why? And Catherine, she's very religious. And she said, not too long ago, God told me that I needed to be involved in my community. And so I'd like to know more about it. We had lunch. I talked about it and she said, she's very measured.

She said, I'm going on a trip to Italy, I think it is for a week, and I'll let you know when I come back. And we started talking about that. And there was another lady I remember, Louise Lynch. Who used to run an organization here and Louise was going on this trip with her. I left lunch. I called Louise in a heartbeat.

I said, sell candidate, so on a Sunday morning at six o'clock in the morning, I saw on my computer there was a note from Catherine and it said, I'm in.

And there's two quick stories about how that took place. So we had the interview, and in the middle of the interview, I remember my vice chairman who was just enamored with Katherine and all that, she was professing this. Interview. He got up on a piece of paper and said, you're hired. This would set up a paper in the middle of the interview.

[00:24:11] Mahan Tavakoli: What? Kidding me. Sit back down. And that is just like your vice chairman too, by the way. . 

[00:24:17] Paul Rothenburg: And so here's the best part of this story. After the interview, we're walking down the hall and Glen Howard, who is on my board, and I are walking Catherine out and Glenn says, I think you did terrific.

And if you get this job, then I can get off the board. Catherine stops in the middle of the hallway, everybody else fumbles up behind us. She turns to Glenn and she says, If you get off the board, I'm not taking the job . And the end of that story is Glen Howard is still on the board. Yes. he's chairman.

And every time, I talk to Glen, which is quite often he occasionally reminds me, I'm still on this good girl board case to you, which is not my fault, is it? . 

[00:25:11] Mahan Tavakoli: So in addition to Catherine, you've also been involved in other high profile recruitments, you've been involved with Columbia Lighthouse for the Blind for many years as well, and brought Tony Kaloi there and he's done a magnificent job with that organization.

How did you make that work, Paul? 

[00:25:36] Paul Rothenburg: Somehow we got the job to find a new president. The fellow who was there a blind gentleman had to step down. As , it turned out the F b I was investigating the organization for something. 

And Tony had been a candidate for some other jobs. He had, sold part of his business involvement in an organization and wanted to give back to the community. And he told me that, he interviewed and he was a strong business candidate that did not have any not-for-profit experience.

And the board was not very involved. In fact, interesting to note that Catherine was on the board of Columbia Lighthouse for the Blind at this time. and Tony made this presentation and I think he, he actually scared the. , he did a lot of good research. He found out a lot about the organization and he told them some things that they had to do and they became very concerned and they didn't want to hire him. They became concerned because he had done great research. 

too. Good. Too good. Since the board wasn't involved, they didn't have a very good handle on what needed to be done in the organization, but Tony did. This guy knows more about the organization than we do, and we're on the board.

You laugh. I can set examples where that's taken place from candidates as well, but after Tony left and there's some discussion amongst the board members and I said, no, you've gotta hire 'em. and we get into this discussion, which turns into I don't think I've ever done this before.

Mahan. I think I was yelling at him, what do you mean you're not gonna hire me? You have got to hire this guy. This guy is gonna be the person that, you know, puts you back on the map. You look at all the problems, et cetera. After the meeting was over, they finally hired Tony. And shortly after that, Catherine called me and resigned from the board of c l b.

Tony gets into the organization and he says, Paul, you have to come on the board. . Now, this happens quite a few times to the recruiters at the McCormick group, recruiter president or something. And right away they say, oh, you did such a good job. You know so much about the organization coming the board.

And the answer of course all the time is absolutely not. I'm not doing it. So I told Tony, no, but once Tony gets a hook and you're in trouble, . So finally I told him, I'll tell you what, you get rid of the board, I'll come on the board. He says, how do I do that? I said, what do you mean?

How do you do that? So I explained to them, just tell 'em that, we don't have term limits, but thank you very much. You're not wanted. And when you tell people they're not wanted on a board, where people are not involved, they leave. And finally the last one left was a lawyer who threatened to sue Tony.

And he didn't care about that and she left and he called and said, okay, they're all gone. You're on . And then one thing led to another and I ended up as chairman for quite a long time. And the organization today is in great shape and Tony's still there and I think he's gonna work forever.

[00:29:20] Mahan Tavakoli: Leadership makes a real difference in an organization's success. And throughout the years, Paul, both you have led organizations to success and you've been instrumental in finding the right people and the right fit for them in organizations to lead them to success. So would love to spend a little time understanding that, better understanding as a recruiter as you were looking for a fit.

First of all, on the fits, how did you determine what would be a good fit for the c e o executive role? 

[00:30:01] Paul Rothenburg: The first thing you need to do is you really need to go to school on the organization. You need to understand what they do, how they do it, and what their problems are what their opportunities are.

You do a SWOT analysis of the organization. You can't explain to a potential recruit what the opportunity is if you don't know it yourself. It's almost like marketing 1 0 1, if you will. You really have to understand it, and I think, , that's the number one thing.

Then you understand how the board thinks. Not just the search committee, but the entire board. So I try to make sure that I have an opportunity to sit and talk with the board and listen to what the various board members say about what they're looking for. And then it's very interesting.

You need consensus because you can't have Paul saying, I need someone who's a marketing expert and another person say, I need someone who's a financial expert. You need consensus. So I tell 'em flat out, unless you have a consensus on what you're looking for what the major search criteria are going to be.

I'm not gonna start the search, I won't do it. I don't want to. Change in the middle after we're looking for candidate A that all of a sudden find out, you need candidate B. So in, determining a fit, it boils down to that major search criteria. And that has to do with strategy, that has to do with leadership and management.

It has to do with the basics of running an organization. And once you understand that, then you can go out and be able to talk to candidates, listen and hear what their experience and see whether or not there's a match. And then you've got to make sure that you are able to put yourself almost as a board member the difference is that you're not a board member and you can see things that maybe they can't see or didn't see.

And that's always interesting when you bring subjects up like that. 

[00:32:28] Mahan Tavakoli: Definitely the outsider perspective adds value as well. Now mentioned Catherine Tony their success. You've had so many successful recruits, many of 'em, dear friends. , whether Catherine, Tony, Mary Claire at the Rosland Business Improvement District.

So a lot of very successful people. I imagine there have also been CEOs that were placed that weren't as big of a success. What do you think was lacking when there wasn't the right fit, even though you had gone through the process of getting to know the organization, talking to the board, assessing the candidate?

[00:33:13] Paul Rothenburg: I haven't had that many, but the ones that I have experienced, we call it a fall off, I think in almost every case the fit has been there, but the personal. Clash or that once the new c e o gets in there, he sees things that were not evident, not revealed. And

In almost every case, there's been clashes with the board, this fellow was in the not-for-profit area. And , they were just ecstatic that we were getting this guy. But he got there, saw some things that were not evident and he had some knockdown drag outs with the board members.

And finally they fired him. He was the one person they wanted very high profile in the. . And it was clashes in other cases it, I think in most cases, it's been the problems between the board and the new CEO o we wouldn't had that many, the, the McCormick group.

I've made a few very high profile placements. But I will tell you that, people like Elizabeth Humphrey and Susie Howard and Lyles we've all made more than our share of these placements. And I'd say 98%. They're successful. They're very good at what they do, especially Elizabeth in the not-for-profit area.

Lyles in the legal and not-for-profit area too.

[00:35:02] Mahan Tavakoli: They are, and I love all of them. Lyles has been a dear mentor and friend and I've had a conversation with him for the podcast as well. So they do an outstanding job now , in addition to making sure that the fit is right, Paul, between the candidate and the organization over the years, especially in executive recruiting, you've had the opportunity to see all kinds of characters and all kinds of leadership capabilities.

So if you were to say what would be the commonalities things that effective leaders have in common that is outside of the fit with the organization background. What would you say are the most critical leadership capabilities? 

[00:35:52] Paul Rothenburg: I think that those people who understand the value and the need to establish relationships in or outside the organization it's a key to happiness.

It's a key to understanding. It really is that relationships are important. Often said that, a good leader sets the stage and then gets out of the way and lets people go on with their performance. I think those leaders who understand that are able to select better.

Employees from a senior leadership standpoint. Leaders who know when to jump in and when to sit back and give the people the direction they need, not to make it midling, kind of thing. Those leaders are the ones that I see they're the most successful.

And it's the ones that I learned from. One of my mentors at the Detroit News I think I was a complete, I was a terrible supervisor and he brought me in one day and subsequently did this on a monthly basis and really opened my eyes about. What it meant to give people an opportunity to do what they can and what they're capable of.

And you'd be a bit surprised what they can do if you give them the opportunity. So to me, that's what I look for when I look at a leader in the recruiting area, I want to see those people who talk about what their employees did rather than what they did, who used we instead of I.

And when you ask somebody tell me about one of your biggest successes. Turns out it's not about them. It turns out it's about what the organization did that says something about leaders right there. And that's one of the things that I always look for I remember somebody a long time ago asking me what's the most important thing you ever did in your life?

And I thought about it and all the things, this is in terms of the job. And you think about all the things that you could say, I did this or I did that, or I did this. And finally he said what is it? I said, I saved a life. He said, what? He said, I saved a life. The guy looked at me and said, you're likely gonna get this job because you didn't answer me with something about your professional career, what you did.

And I used to ask that question to, especially CEOs, to see, what's the most important thing you ever did in. and sometimes they say, married my wife. I know your wife. I think that would be how good something that would be very good and certainly one of mine. But still those CEOs are really exceptional.

Those that can really cultivate this relationship in their organization that gives the people the freedom and the willingness to do things that are necessary maybe out of the box. And that can control the organization without the c e o standing there with this finger on them all the. , 

[00:39:32] Mahan Tavakoli: What a beautiful way to describe it Paul. This is one of the reasons I have loved and admired you for so many years because the way you described leadership is the way we need to lead, the kind of leaders we need to celebrate. I have talked in the podcast about, and sometimes post about the fact that in some respects we've become a little too selfie oriented.

Playing on the theme of people taking selfies with selfie CEOs who are the center of attention always, rather than letting their people be the center of attention and elevating them. And also in our communities and in society. We've gone a little too far in celebrating in some instances as egotistical leaders.

that have achieved business results but have done it at the expense of the people that they are leading. So the way you are describing it is a beautiful way to lead, and I hope more of us can aspire to become the kind of leaders that you talk about. What an outstanding perspective on it. Now, if you had a chance, Paul, to give advice to younger Pauls out there wanting to make a real difference?

What advice would you give them?

[00:41:01] Paul Rothenburg: It's hard to try to explain to a young person the value and necessity of establishing good relationships. They'll stand you instead for the rest of your career. 

This cultivates and establishes meaningful relationships, whether it's in your personal life or your professional life. It is really important. The other thing too is I think finding something that's worthwhile that you want to do and that makes an impact. I think people need to do that.

[00:41:31] Mahan Tavakoli: It's the relationships at the end of the day that both produce the greatest satisfaction for the individual connection to the community and greatest impact. Thank you so much, Paul, for being a relationship that I have cherished for 20 plus years and taking some of your time to share some of your experience and leadership lessons with the partnering leadership community.

Thank you so much, Paul Rothenberg. 

[00:42:00] Paul Rothenburg: Thank you. Mahan. Anything for you?