278 Power to the Middle: Why Managers Hold the Keys to the Future of Work with McKinsey Partner Emily Field | Partnering Leadership Global Thought Leader

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[00:00:00] Mahan Tavakoli: Welcome to Partnering Leadership. I'm really excited this week to be welcoming Emily Field. Emily is a partner at McKinsey and Company and co-author of power to the Middle, why Managers Hold The Keys to the Future of Work. I. The traditional corporate ladder presumes that the higher we climb the more important the work becomes.

But Emily argues that the middle rungs of the organization are precisely where the most vital work is done, and I couldn't agree with her more. Her research shows that middle managers who interact closely. With both senior leaders and the frontline employees are the organizational linchpins best positioned to bring about lasting change.

However, unfortunately, many companies under utilize and disempower these critical roles. In her book and in the conversation, Emily shares how organizations can tap into the potential of middle management by removing obstacles, reassessing their responsibilities, and providing training and support. I really enjoyed the conversation.

Learned a lot from Emily's book and have no doubt. You will both enjoy the conversation and learn a lot from her as well. I also love hearing from you. Keep your comments coming, mohamed mohan tavi.com. There's also a microphone icon on partnering leadership.com. You can leave voice messages for me there.

Now here's my conversation with Emily Field. Emily Field. Welcome to Partnering Leadership. I am thrilled to have you in this conversation with me. It's great to be here. Emily can't wait to talk about power to the Middle. Why managers hold the key to the future of work. But before we get a chance to talk about that, we'd love to know whereabouts you grew up and how your upbringing impacted the kind of person you've become.

Emily.

[00:02:08] Emily Field: I think so much is informed by your childhood . I'm often reminded it goes back to family of origin, if you will. So I grew up in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, a small farming community youngest of four daughters.. My dad was in sales and a cheesemaker.

My mom really focused on taking care of four children and had odd jobs that fulfilled her days. She worked as a bank teller. She worked as a cafeteria lady so cafeteria worker so that she could Be working when we were in school and home when we weren't frankly facing the realities of childcare and childcare costs.

And so I say all of that to say I think, growing up I learned the value of hard work. I learned the value of sacrifice, always doing what's right. And then also one of the things that was really influential that I only learned. Decades later was also the impact of watching family members lose their jobs and be laid off.

And if we fast forward to, no one wants to go back to March, 2020 but if we go back there for a moment, you'll recall, entire industries were shutting down overnight. People were losing their jobs. And you couldn't just walk down the street to a new restaurant job, right?

Every restaurant was closed, for example. Same with airlines, hospitality, et cetera. And it actually surprised me how much it impacted me. I felt just awful. I felt paralyzed and actually felt the trauma of remembering what it was like from both of my parents at different times to come home and say, That they'd been laid off, that their job had been eliminated.

And I was vividly imagining parents in tens of millions in the, United States alone, having to go home and say that they'd been laid off, that their job was lost. They didn't know how they were gonna make ends meet. And so as a result, I actually founded a talent exchange that helped people that were losing their jobs.

Be hired by companies that were hiring in masks all truly stem. It was a tremendous partnership. Let's be clear, a lot of different people involved, both from my organization, McKinsey, and also from tech partners and organizations who banded together at this tremendous moment of need. But it truly started with me being like an eight year old little girl and being upstairs and hearing my parents come home and say, I lost my job.

And so I think what's really important too, is to say what do you do with that information, how do you build something better? And how do you help people? And , my childhood formative moments have allowed me to be a better leader, a better helper, a better facilitator to help people find the jobs all stemming from a, really pivotal moment as a young child.

[00:04:54] Mahan Tavakoli: What an incredible origin story. Emily, I can spend the rest of the conversation just talking about that, whether it's the beauty of Lancaster and the hardworking that you saw with your parents and the purpose drive that you've had. Supporting people that lose jobs and opportunities

so I love hearing that because that purpose also comes through your writing and your content. Because one of the things that. I was surprised when I first saw your book is that for decades, middle managers have been the butt of jokes, and in many instances, organizations have tried to eliminate as many middle manager roles as possible.

So I wonder, What got you to think about, maybe these managers are the key to the future of work rather than something we need to minimize re-engineer or work out of organizations.

[00:06:00] Emily Field: So you're absolutely right, managers get a bad reputation and so when my co-authors, bill Sheer, Brian Hancock, and I looked back on.

Collective decades of experience, surpassing 60 years of experience. Specifically on the topic of building effective organizations. We looked back and we said, what makes a company win or lose? What makes a company innovate or fall short? What makes a company succeed? And we kept coming back. And we frankly just couldn't unsee it.

Whether or not you can transform a culture, whether or not you can launch in a new market, whether or not you can. Achieve your growth aspirations, yes, the c e o sets the direction and yes, the, executive business unit leader, translates to what it means for their group and they own the p and l, but who actually makes it happen day to day?

Who actually translates the work to be done into how it's actually going to get done? Who sets the tone for the people who develops people and helps them execute. Both the strategy as well as on their own personal aspirations, it always came back to the middle manager. And also frankly, a recognition that people complain about middle managers,

they're the permafrost layer. We've gotta thaw them. They're the clay layer. Nothing can permeate through. And you have to ask the question why is that? And also, when an executive leader is. Making these statements who's gonna solve that? Whose job is it to thaw the permafrost?

Who created the system in which there's this permafrost to begin with? And how do we really empower? And quite literally, as the book's title suggests, put the power to the middle.

[00:07:58] Mahan Tavakoli: Why is that though?

 Whether in my interactions with CEOs or in employee surveys, I. Everyone points at someone else, but a lot of people point at the middle manager layer as being responsible for ineffective execution, or people who get in the way of change initiatives in organizations or need to manage more effectively.

Why is everything pointed there? And if there is a recognition that's where the need is, why isn't there more focused on those middle managers?

[00:08:33] Emily Field: I think it's really easy to point to other people to say that's the problem. So I also think this starts with having a recognition of how do we, from where we stand, regardless of our level, take ownership.

So the c e o needs to set the vision for the firm and also for the people. What do we expect of them in partnership with the rest of the leadership team? I think the reason why the middle manager though keeps being the Brunt of the joke or getting the short end of the stick is because we have not set up the role to succeed.

Think about it. If we just even maybe take a walk down like history lane, what we know is, hey, in the fifties to the eighties, the. Middle manager, it's like you've arrived. If you made it to be middle manager, you were critically important to disseminating information to Bubbling information back up to making decisions.

You were critical, but then enter, the.com era and internet. Suddenly you no longer needed to be the communicator, disseminator of information you just press a button and anyone can radiate a massive message to everyone. And so I think what happened too, at the same time as technology changes were happening is, Middle managers, frankly, were saying, what's my purpose?

How do I justify my existence? And so then they got this terrible reputation of bureaucrats, paper pushers, work makers, but what we actually didn't do is we didn't say, what is the role of a middle manager in this new normal? How do we empower them? How do we hold them accountable, and how do we build their capabilities?

We set them up to fail. And oftentimes now in organizations, you've got managers reporting to managers, and the list goes on in terms of this layering effect. And we haven't actually said, Hey, does our organization design deliver on our strategy? Have we empowered the role of the manager?

Have we freed them up? To focus on the tasks that matter most. We can go more into this Mahan, but when we actually look at how managers are spending their time, it's no wonder that people question their value because their time allocation isn't in line with where we'd expect it to be. To have that unique purpose that they uniquely are suited for around strategy, execution, and people development.

[00:10:57] Mahan Tavakoli: In my experience, Emily, a lot of what I see is the middle manager's roles are kept with the organizations of the past, while the organization has shifted. So in many instances, the middle manager position needs to be rethought. So with the organizations that you work with, and in researching this book, How can companies rethink the role of the middle manager for the organization of today and the future, rather than the middle manager that served those purposes in the past that no longer are needed

[00:11:32] Emily Field: I would say given coming out of the pandemic, the fact that over 70% of people have rethought their relationship with work, given that we have a wellbeing crisis in terms of mental health and burnout. The role of the manager, I love your point

 the role of the middle manager has not evolved to keep pace with the incredible internal and external forces at play. And so no wonder we're disappointed in the outcomes. No wonder we're questioning the value because the role's not set up to succeed. And also importantly, managers are frustrated.

They have been neglected and there's key shifts that need to happen, one of the big shifts we talk about in the book is this concept of how do we make the manager role a destination, not a way station. What I mean by that is people, Often tell me like, oh, I got out of middle management.

I'm no longer a middle manager. It's almost viewed as a bad word, sometimes I start asking some questions. I say, okay, so you're not a middle manager. You work at an enormous corporation. I also know you're not the c e O, you're not a business unit leader. Wait, what do you mean?

You're not a middle manager? And eventually it always comes down to, hey, you've got managers above you. You've got managers below you. My friend, you're a middle manager, and that's okay. And so this idea that it's not a bad place to be, and importantly to the only path to move up, the only path to advance increased responsibility and grow rewards should not be being a people manager.

Not everyone is suited to be a people manager, and so we also have to think about what are different tracks that people can pursue because. The idea of putting your best seller or your best technologist into a people leader role. You lose your best seller or your best technologist. You've got someone who's not maybe developed or maybe doesn't even wanna be a people leader in this role.

And it has ripple effects across the organization. And so that's a key shift. Like we actually just have to fundamentally change the perception of what it means to be a middle manager. And it should not be a bad word.

[00:13:53] Mahan Tavakoli: As you mentioned, a lot of times people wanna run away from it because the association with the word has become negative,

now you talk about whether it's. The war for talent or connecting employees to organizational purpose. Middle managers play a critical role. What is the role middle managers playing in those issues? So

[00:14:19] Emily Field: I'd bucket it into a couple of categories and we can really dig into them one-on-one.

They are. The lifeblood of making things happen, they actually reimagine jobs. They understand what's the work to be done and how does it translate to the people who are gonna do the work. And so there's a huge piece around driving the work. And then there's a second piece which I think is often neglected.

And let's talk about why, which is around the people leadership side of things, being a continuous coach, being someone who inspires the organization that's something that is too often that is missed. And this idea that, peop people leadership is an absolutely indispensable.

Required part of being a middle manager. When I talk to middle managers, they often tell me, I get that I'm not trying to be a bad people leader, but I'm not rewarded for that. I'm actually only rewarded for my results. And what that translates to is , middle managers spend their time focused on.

Individual contributor work, the work that they are closest to, the work that their leader holds them accountable to at the expense oftentimes of thinking about the bigger picture, what's around the corner, and then importantly, how am I building the right opportunities and developing my people.

[00:15:48] Mahan Tavakoli: That plays a really important role. Emily. Part of what I'm seeing is many of the organizations have been struggling with hybrid work, and some of the CEOs complain about the lower productivity that they see in their organizations, and I don't necessarily think it's the hybrid work as much as what you mentioned, the role of these managers who engage and lead their team members rather than just being focused on producing themselves.

So that's the missing piece, even with the hybrid work.

[00:16:24] Emily Field: And if we dig into hybrid click deeper, so often what has happened is middle managers who have been. Finding fires for years now are burnt out themselves, let's be clear of all levels. Managers are the most burnt out to the tune of 43% of managers reporting burnout.

So managers are exhausted. Their teams are saying, in many cases, I don't wanna come in to the office. And the managers are quite literally, stuck in the middle of an executive saying, I want people in the office. I wanna be able to see people and their team saying, I don't know about that.

I moved far away, or I'm more productive at home. Or insert reason. And , many managers actually saying, Hey, I actually, frankly don't wanna come in either. I'm exhausted, I've replaced my commute time with work time, and of course we're generalizing here, but the important piece of this is managers are the perfect leader, to actually say what is the best use of in-office time?

The problem with hybrid of when we say, Hey, come in three days a week. Is if we're sitting on video calls for three days a week with my team that's globally distributed I just commuted an hour and a half each way and. I'm leaving saying, what was the value of that I just had to be here to badge in versus actually what great looks as a manager saying, let's make the best use of our time together.

How do we construct our time together to be around highly collaborative activities around coaching around connection and getting to know each other on innovation and big thinking and how do we say, Let's clean sheet our calendar to make sure that we are making best use of the time in person and we're not just being reactive to how we've been spending our time when we were fully remote, but that translation, that sensemaking one, it would behoove organizations to give their leaders. So frameworks by which to do that. And two, when managers are burnt out themselves and they're reacting to the firefighting of, how do I figure out childcare and how do I figure out running all my responsibilities frankly saying, how do I make best use of time?

 It's not always prioritized, but the value of saying what's in office, what's out of office, what's our heads downtime, where we work remotely, et cetera. There's so much value there to then being able to get the most out of the time together.

[00:19:08] Mahan Tavakoli: The organizations that I've seen do it best do exactly what you mentioned, Emily, where they empower the managers.

To be flexible, looking at how it works best with their team as opposed to mandates throughout the organization. Now, part of what you also mentioned in the book is that it's the lack of autonomy and bureaucracy that a lot of times hinders middle managers. What have you seen organizations do and how can they remove those roadblocks?

Because no one intentionally sets up bureaucracy or takes away autonomy. However, many organizations have bureaucracy and the managers lack autonomy. So what have you seen as steps that organizations can take to reduce bureaucracy and increase the autonomy for managers effectively?

[00:20:06] Emily Field: So this is so important.

You're spot on, and that might tell you a quick story before I directly answer the question as well. Organizations don't, executives in particular don't intend to hoard power, so there's a story in the book about a C E O of a fast-growing food processing company. And just as a disclaimer these stories to preserve client confidentiality are composites.

But these are true examples of what we've seen across organizations. And so we'll call this c e o Fred, and he was. C e o, large global organization, and he found himself absolutely inundated by questions large and small. Approve a flight, approve a new headcount , approving a credit card to an employee whose credit card was compromised.

And Fred could not actually get. Strategic work done. He needed to be focused on his growth strategy in an emerging market, but he just kept getting bogged down by a myriad of requests. And CEOs like Fred, and you could insert your own name of other leaders, fred is not unique. Particularly in resource constrained environments, start. Taking every decision thinking that they need absolute control, and they don't think about what's the cost of that, right? One, what are they not doing while they're, focused on the expense report? Two, what are they keeping from their people?

How are they developing and empowering? Their leaders to be able to drive. If you've gotta bring a flight approval to the c E O, then you start to think you've gotta bring absolutely everything to them, right? And so how are you preparing people to take your job in the future if all decision rights come up to you?

 Then there's the straw that breaks the camel's back and then Fred starts delegating. To people again for a little while, only for some, external need or situation that then says, Ooh, let me snap back all the power we know best.

And so there's this bait and switch. That actually managers are asking, what am I responsible for? What can I do? Because it feels to me like the leadership team is taking all the power and. Am I a cog in the wheel? And so I tell you that story to say to your point, there's gotta be a better way.

How do we do things differently? And I think what's really important is to say, let's start at the top. What are the leadership decisions that an executive team should make a hundred percent of the time? A . Big people decisions, a new executive a big divestiture, big, shift in capital allocation.

There are a list of tasks and big decisions that the executive team should make, and there are, there's a loan to make. But are there decisions that they need to push down? And importantly then, how do you think about what's the role of the leader in doing that and what's the right decisions at the right level?

I was working with an organization a large global bank that they actually said, The role of the manager's untenable. They're burnt out. They're asking this question of, am I a cog in the wheel? The senior leaders were saying, I don't think we're developing our managers to be the next generation of leaders we need.

And so there was this sort of perfect confluence to say, Hey, let's actually clean sheet the role of the manager. They actually looked at all of the tasks that a manager has to do just by virtue of being at that level of the organization. The list was over

approving time sheets, flights, new job requisitions, performance reviews. The list went on and on, and some of these things are really important, we can all agree. A manager should. Interview candidates, but there were a lot of things on the list like approving an expense report where frankly, in this day and age, technology auditing tools are more prone to detect an anomaly than a human.

And so how do we set the right guardrails, but then teams can work within them. And so what this organization did is they said, okay, there's 150 tasks as a result of being a people leader. What an enormous amount of operational burden. I. Let's look at it and say, what can we completely eliminate? What can we kill?

So for example during the pandemic in crisis mode, they were having daily standups about the health and wellbeing of their people. I. Critical during the early days of the pandemic, but that had been a couple of years and they were still doing this, those are things they could eliminate,

don't just be reactive to your calendar set the priorities. Then there were things that they could automate or Self-serve. Things like, expense approvals for flights within a specific guardrail, within a specific budget. We can automatically approve it and instead manage the exception not every single travel request.

And so what can we streamline or automate? And then what can we push down to employees and have them do it? And then importantly, What are the things that a manager should always retain? I mentioned interviewing, performance reviews, coaching succession planning, development of their people,

these are things that, They may alone not drive, they may be in partnership with hr, for example, but the leader plays an absolutely critical role. You can't outsource your performance management discussions. You can't outsource coaching or, final decision on interviewing. And so what are the things that a manager should be doing?

And then how do we flip how they're spending their time to focus on those priorities? We actually surveyed. Middle managers and what we found was that middle managers are spending about a day a week on administrative tasks. And again, you've gotta ask, what are they not doing as a result of that?

And how do we really reprioritize? Because we all know we can't spend time. It's finite.

[00:26:15] Mahan Tavakoli: I love that, Emily. It's what I consistently see in organizations. Part of what you are mentioning is that a lot of those people interactions, whether it's the coaching, the selection, the development of the people that are critical, For the managers to engage in are the types of things that I see put off.

There are times when I see managers that aren't even meeting with their people once a month, let alone on a weekly basis because they are overwhelmed with all these other tasks. The 150 tasks that you talk about is probably the case in. Many organizations that the listeners are in, where the managers are overwhelmed with all of these things, not having the time and the energy to pay attention to the most important parts.

So that's really. Critical for all organizations to think about. Part of the challenge I've seen is in interacting with CEOs and senior leaders of organizations, they sometimes complain that their managers aren't meeting with their, people aren't doing consistent performance coaching and feedback, but they are also not aware of all of these.

Things that have built up that the managers have to do over a period of time. I also love the example you gave of the standup meetings where things creep onto people's schedules and then they don't get off of it. So managers have a lot of those that take their time rather than focusing on the most important things, people being a big part of that.

[00:28:00] Emily Field: Absolutely. And really getting clear on what is the role, how do we empower the role? And then also, you triggered something for me, Mahan on. Have we also trained our managers on how to coach and develop, many people became leaders during the pandemic.

Maybe they actually haven't been a leader on site, or maybe they've stepped into a new role. Or also, many organizations just historically haven't invested in. Developing great managers. There's almost this idea that you can become a great manager by osmosis. Like you have a leader, you learned how to do it, and sure, apprenticeship on the job is critically important, but.

It's not sufficient. Management being a people leader, it's a discipline, and how do you get really clear on what great people, leadership, what a great manager looks like at your organization? And then how do you build the capabilities? How do you also upstream? Hire and promote based on those capabilities, are you putting people into the role that have a chance of success?

And then how do you hold them accountable for delivering, not just on performance outcomes, but also on people outcomes? Because what we know is that organizations that prioritize both performance and people. That's how they win. They drive results sustainably, not just the next quarter, but year over year consistently, because it's like the yin and yang.

You need to focus on performance and people.

[00:29:42] Mahan Tavakoli:

So what do you see as best practices in terms of how to evaluate and incentivize so it aligns with what you consider to be the manager's most valuable work?

I think

[00:29:58] Emily Field: you've got to measure and reward. The what and the how, both performance and leadership. One organization with whom I partnered called it, Hey, just don't be a jerk and it's fine. Just deliver results and don't be a jerk. And actually the c e o of this company had this great awakening and said, you know what, if we're gonna achieve results sustainably year over year, if we're gonna drive our objectives, Not being a jerk , that's a requirement, but that's not sufficient.

We actually need great leaders who are talent magnets. People are dying to work with them who are force multipliers, who can help people achieve more than they ever thought possible. That's how we're gonna drive our innovation agenda. That's how we're gonna make it happen. And so what's important there is.

 One, it starts with this deep belief that the what and the how matters. And also, frankly, and this c e o was emphatic look. I'm not prioritizing the what at the sake of the how , it's got to be both, and many organizations are moving to a model where it's actually 50 50, and then you've gotta assess it.

You've gotta get clear on what is your leadership model, what are the attributes what are the skills and capabilities that you demand? Of leaders and then how do you measure it? And you can measure it right from whether it's a 180, a two 70 assessment or a 360 whether you're using specific data points like attrition The diversity and inclusion scores of your team engagement scores, et cetera, but actually really measuring it.

Sometimes people say, oh, that's the soft stuff. You gotta make it hard. It is measurable and you've gotta hold people accountable because when middle managers tell me, I'm quick to cancel my one-on-one to focus on my individual contributor work because I don't get.

Rewarded for being a great people leader. They're not being, malicious, they're being rational human beings. If what makes the difference between whether or not they outperform or get their bonus is actually the performance of themselves and not of their teams, not what they unlock for their people.

Then, Again, a very rational person would say, that's where I've gotta prioritize. You've gotta change what gets rewarded and then importantly, that's only a part of it. You also have to have leaders role modeling it, this needs to be from the c E o doing this with his or her executive team too.

You also have to help people understand why, the how matters, you can't just say it once, either you've gotta say it consistently over time, and then you've gotta build the skills of people to be able to actually do it you actually have to train managers on how do you have development conversations?

When you encounter difficult people situations, how do you respond? Again, don't outsource it to hr. It's actually your role as a leader to engage on it. But we haven't developed that capability and if we're not rewarding leaders for it, it's not surprising that they're quick to deprioritize it when push comes to shove on their already overflowing plates.

[00:33:11] Mahan Tavakoli: Absolutely. We can't expect them to do things that, as you mentioned they aren't trained for. So there is need for that training development they aren't incentivized for because we do, as humans gravitate toward what we are incentivized for. And then when senior leaders in the organization aren't setting the example.

So those things become really important now, one of the other things that you mentioned in the book is about the fact that there is this great rebundling and. With automation changing work, middle managers can help in reconfiguring roles. I am fascinated, Emily, have been for a couple of years, actually had a conversation with a colleague of yours recently on The book rewired Eric Lamar on the Impact Artificial Intelligence will have both on the strategy of organizations, but also in terms of application within the organization.

So part of what you say is this automation is changing work and middle managers can help reconfigure roles, which is essential. So what role do you think middle managers can play in this changing environment?

[00:34:29] Emily Field: Managers have such a role to play. Let me start just by hitting you with a couple of facts.

So the research suggests that 85 million jobs will be significantly disrupted by 20, 30, 90 7 million jobs will be created. So there are more jobs being created than disrupted. And also importantly, it's actually helpful to think about jobs as a sort of compilation of tasks. And what we know is that specifically generative AI for knowledge workers, we estimate that about 10% of any given knowledge worker role could be significantly changed as a result of generative ai.

So what do I do with that information? One, this idea of being a reb bundler as tasks go away, more often than not, a whole job is not going away. Tasks are going away. You need to think about then how does the role change? And then who's the right person to be in the role? How do I develop them?

And so if we give the example of a grocery store moving to self-checkout. So first of all, you. Probably still need some cashiers, you need customer service. And so there's still a role for that. But then you also need more technicians who are able to troubleshoot. You need people that are overseeing the self-checkout area.

You actually need different skill sets, the jobs aren't changing. The tasks that compile the job are changing, but you still need the people. And so who better to figure out? How do I think about the right role for the right people in my organization? Then the manager who's actually working day-to-day with the team who's able to translate the strategy, the where I'm headed on self-checkout to.

Okay. Then, If this is how many people I need anytime in the store, and these are the specific types of roles, these are the people I'd slot in, and these are their specific strengths, these are their development goals, and how do I make sure I've got the right people in the right roles to be able to deliver both , the businesses needs as well as the individual's needs.

And so that's a really critical role of the manager. And that's something that, a senior leader can't just, make happen. Again, they can set the direction, but the actual execution, the leader, they're the reimagining of jobs, they're the rebundle who can actually say, what's the work that needs to be done, and then how do we make it happen?

[00:37:10] Mahan Tavakoli: I love that term, rebundling and the stat that you referenced, Emily, tasks will be automated. That doesn't mean jobs will be automated. All of us will have tasks within our roles that will be automated and the great managers will be the ones who will. Be able to help their people in rebundling the work and the tasks.

So some of it is automated and then they're trained to do the parts that people can do most effectively. So managers play a critical role in that. And I love the term rebundling. It is not replacement,

and this is not necessarily something strategic from the c e o and the senior team. This is at the individual manager level working with their team members. Now, one other thing I wanted to get your thoughts on. You've already mentioned Emily, about senior leaders and their role and impact on middle managers. I get emails quite often from my listeners because a lot of times the focus is on what the c e o and what the leadership team needs to do. What do the managers themselves need to do? People who are managers and are listening to this and say, okay, in addition to sending this conversation or sending the book to my c e o and leadership team, what should I do?

[00:38:39] Emily Field: Absolutely, and I think that's really important, because middle managers. Have a lot that they can do and what I would caution is, frankly don't fall to a victim mindset. This is happening to me. I wish I could, but I could never, because my leadership doesn't support me.

An agent, what can you do? You, as a people leader, what can you control? And also frankly, how can you control your response? And so I think what's really important is saying, okay, as a senior leader or as a manager, you can be really clear in. What your team does when you come together,

that we talked about, hybrid. You can also be really clear about how does each person on your team's work fit in to the broader picture. Where are there places where frankly, it doesn't fit into the bigger picture? What can we deprioritize or stop doing? Because our organization, our group, has a very specific remit and.

Priorities have evolved. How do you also as a leader of people build a great team environment where you know, all of your employees development goals, their strengths, their opportunities, what motivates them, and this idea of how do you develop your people? It's funny, I was talking to an executive last week who was saying, oh my gosh, Emily, I was hoping, now that we're done with the pandemic, We could just get back to work.

And what I'm seeing is like a lot of people are coming back to work and they're bringing the whole person Mahan. I know you and I both received degrees from Georgetown University and this idea of the Jesuit principle of Cura Personalis, right? Care for the whole person, I actually think is really applicable to people leadership these days,

 How do managers take care of their people? And that does not mean that managers are. Therapist. That doesn't mean that this replaces the need for HR professionals and employee assistance programs, but what it does mean is how do we develop the leadership capabilities of managers to support their teams, to be able to sense when things aren't right to help them connect to the right people?

There's a ton of things both around the actual work and the people leadership that middle managers have within their control. And I think the most important place to start though is saying, what are the things I can stop doing? And so even from an administrative task, you know I mentioned that organization that.

Sort of rethought the 150 people liter tasks, okay, that's an organization initiative. But what can you do from where you stand? Can you go look at your calendar and say, am I responding to my calendar? Or am I making a calendar that drives my business and personal objectives? Am I working on the individual contributor work that , I'm most uniquely suited to do, or if I'm being honest, I doing individual contributor work because one of my direct reports left and I just took on their burden,

the individual contributor work that a manager is uniquely suited to do, it's around knitting together the different work streams, seeing the bigger picture, , painting what's on the horizon or playing the movie forward. It's not doing sort of the direct reports work because they're no longer there.

Maybe that was needed in the moment, but how do you actually build a resilient team where that's not the status quo? And so there's so much a manager can do, but it really starts with saying, how do they get deliberate about how they're allocating their time and controlling what they can control?

[00:42:19] Mahan Tavakoli:  I love the point that you made that managers themselves are also in control of a lot of this.

Specifically focusing in on a couple of questions that you just asked. Am I doing individual contributor work? Whatever the excuse is, we are short staffed or I'm good at this, or no one can do it as good rather than doing the individual contributor work, focusing on the people and developing the people, that's the manager's role and we can always balance and assess that.

Now, one of the things that Emily, I find is that when managers want to do that, They should go through training, development, and that's part of what they can seek out and organizations can provide. I'm curious, are there resources, practices, books that you recommend for managers as they want to work on themselves to become the kind of managers that become key to that future of work that you talk about?

[00:43:24] Emily Field: At the risk of self-promotion, this book is for managers, we believe that managers hold the keys to the future of work, and the intent was for this book to be relevant and accessible to managers. And so I'd really encourage. Picking up a copy and then also sharing it with your leader,

having a conversation with executives. But it really starts, I think, with saying, what can I control? How can I develop myself? And it starts with recognizing too that managers hold the power. They literally, hold the keys to the future of work.

[00:44:02] Mahan Tavakoli: Absolutely, and I love the book, Emily, both the thought behind it, and then the approach throughout the book.

It's a great read both for the senior leaders in organizations to recognize the important role that managers can play in the organization and the managers themselves as well. So how can the audience find out more about the book and your work? Emily?

[00:44:28] Emily Field: So I am active on LinkedIn sharing our latest research at Emily Fields.

And then you can get a copy of Power to the Middle, why Managers Hold the Keys to the Future of Work wherever books are sold. And our latest insights are on mckinsey.com.

[00:44:46] Mahan Tavakoli: You have written great articles on McKinsey, Harvard Business Review, and this is an outstanding book, power to the Middle, why Managers Hold The Keys to the Future of Work,

I hope organizations recognize the critical role that middle managers can play, so I really appreciate the book and the content you're putting out in the role that middle managers can play. Thank you so much, Emily Field. It's been my

[00:45:15] Emily Field: absolute pleasure, Mahan.