290 Latino Leadership to Enrich Our Shared Future with Juana Bordas | Partnering Leadership Global Thought Leader

***DISCLAIMER: Please note that the following AI-generated transcript may not be 100% accurate and could contain misspellings or errors.***

[00:00:00] Mahan Tavakoli: Welcome to Partnering Leadership. I'm delighted this week to be welcoming Juana Bordas. Juana is an acclaimed speaker, advisor to leaders, and the author of Salsa, Soul and Spirit, Leadership for a Multicultural Age. She has spent decades empowering leaders and organizations. To better connect with diversity.

She is the founder of Mestiza Leadership International, dedicated to developing leaders of all backgrounds. In this conversation, we discuss her newly revised book, The Power of Latino Leadership, Culture, Inclusion, and Contribution, drawing on history, culture, and real world examples. Juana outlines 10 principles of Latino leadership and what we can all learn from this community focused approach.

I really enjoyed her rich insights and moving stories, and I'm sure you will as well. I also love hearing from you. Keep your comments coming. Mahan at Mahantavikoli. com. There's also a microphone icon on PartneringLeadership. com. Really enjoy getting your voice messages. Don't forget to follow the podcast on your favorite platform and leave a rating and review when you get a chance.

That will help more people find and benefit from these conversations. Now here's my conversation with Juana Bordas. One aboard us. Welcome to partnering leadership. I am thrilled to have you in this conversation with me. 

[00:01:32] Juana Bordas: Thank you so much for inviting me. And I'm looking forward to a wonderful discussion. I am looking 

[00:01:38] Mahan Tavakoli: forward to it as well. Juana. But before we get started on that, we'd love to know whereabouts you grew up and how your upbringing impacted the kind of person you've become. 

[00:01:49] Juana Bordas: Wonderful. I want to let people know that I'm an elder in my community. Many traditions honor age.

And I think that's an important thing. And we'll talk more about the transition of generations. We're going through and how important it is for the generations to work together.

People ask me, are you retiring? And I go, Oh no, you ain't seen nothing yet. And I do want to encourage people that are thinking about retiring to think about the fact that we are going through this transformation and that we need their wisdom, their experience, and that young people need their guidance.

And we have to figure out how to build that kind of partnership across generations today. We'll talk a little bit more about that. But I'm saying that because I actually immigrated to the United States in the 40s. I was a young child and my parents, my ancestors come from the Caribbean coast of Nicaragua, which is very diverse.

And 1 reason that I value diversity so much as I see the benefits and beauty of it from my own background. There was a tsunami in the 40s that wiped out Cabo. Gracias. Adios. And so my father went up to the mines and Bonanza. To earn money to bring his family to America and this is the dream of so many people across the world to be able to come to the land of opportunity.

So he came over here with my 2 older sisters. I come from a very large extended family. 8 children and they earned money to bring us to America. So here's my mother and 5 of her children. I was 3 and a half years old getting on a banana boat. Yeah. Because, those are the banana republics.

That's where our bananas come from. And our avocados come from. And I was in the hull of the boat. So there were bananas everywhere and they had one room where there were bunk beds. So we were like mounted up on these bunk beds. And I remember my brother coming up to me and saying, Juanita, do you want a flatbed or do you want a banana?

And so what I want to say is that when we landed here. My mother had a fifth grade education and my father had more. He was a bookkeeper, but together they had this vision of educating their children and having them have a better life. And because I was the youngest daughter, I was able to go to college.

I was the 1st, 1 in my entire ancestry to become educated and I have to say that opened the door. My 3 daughters have advanced degrees once a person does that in their family. It opens the whole door. But it was a really difficult transition, particularly for my parents to come to this country where they didn't speak the language.

They had to leave their communities, their people, their culture. And I think the main thing that immigrants lose is that respect and that connection to their community. But I'm very proud of my parents and the incredible sacrifice they made. That's why I'm so committed to contributing to others.

Because so many people in my family helped me become Hawaiian.

[00:04:42] Mahan Tavakoli: What a beautiful story of both the vision that your parents had, what they had to sacrifice in order to give their kids an opportunity in this country. Now, Juana, when we hear stories of immigrants like your parents, we find it to be inspiring 

However, oftentimes we, as accommodating or embracing of the people that have those aspirations now. What do you think is the reason for that?

[00:05:13] Juana Bordas: I think first of all, if you look at Latinos, we stay connected. We can go back to Mexico. We can go back to Puerto Rico. There's this connection. Plus, we have a cultural core here now that we can relate to. So we keep our roots and we understand how important that is. Unfortunately, when our country was founded and people came over from Europe, they cut their ties to their homelands.

They were encouraged to change their names, to forget their languages. I don't think you could do that. Most cultures in the world honor their ancestors. You go to a Chinese restaurant, there's an altar there honoring their ancestors. We have Dia de los Muertos and we stay connected.

That's so important. And once you have that sense of importance of connecting to your roots, then when you see immigrants come over here, you go wow, where are they from? What gifts are they bringing? Who are they? Nobody makes the trek across a desert or a sea to come here unless they really have that desire for a better life.

And today when we look at one out of five people in our world are refugees. So people are coming here just like my family because of a natural disaster, and many times. If you look at our country, we're innovative, creative, and can do it, we have that immigrant spirit. That's what's made us great.

And that's what I continue to make us great. One of the things I want to say is that with the change in age we need immigrants. We need immigrants because if we want to have social security, we better have them paying their taxes and they do. Immigrants contribute an incredible amount of money.

In my book I document the amount of money and resources and taxes that immigrants bring us. Not to mention we're a global community now and we need that immigration. So I say, let's stop listening to the pundits that are talking about immigration as a negative thing.

And the next time we meet an immigrant, like I love taking Uber. I was just with a guy from Pakistan talking about the food in Pakistan. Let's learn from each other. Let's. Build this global humanity that we have the opportunity to connect today. 

[00:07:22] Mahan Tavakoli: And that's part of the beauty of your message, Juana.

You talked about. For example, this aspect of respect for elders and for where you are from and people that have come before you, your heritage. How does that play a role, in your view, in that diverse leadership or Latino leadership, as opposed to the way we have been seeing leadership in a more Western centric context?

[00:07:55] Juana Bordas: One of the things about the dominant culture is that it has been individualistically oriented. It's an eye oriented culture. And the fact is that most of the cultures in the world, including Latinos, African American, the Asian community, and women in all cultures who have put the family in the community first, who have built our nonprofits and our schools and our churches.

Where we are in, we're talking about the collective good and in our cultures, it doesn't do anybody. In fact, when somebody takes more than their share, it damages the collective. And we're sitting in a society where three men own half the wealth. And people in collective communities, no, that's not good.

That's not good for all of us. And that we are connected, so learning to lead from a we perspective is such an important thing because then you build teams, you build collaboration. And real important in that is to have respect for each person's contribution, because whether they are the maintenance crew or your I.T. people that I was working with this morning, whether they're the ones that are marketing, you're good or making finances. 

Bills are paid a unique role to play and we can't have strong organizations, strong communities or a strong nation. If we don't respect each individual for who they are and what they have to contribute.

So that's a real shift going from I to we, and then going from. I call it the leader as equal that we respect everybody as an equal and that we're looking for that leadership potential, that current of leadership that they have and your job as a leader is to bring that out good leaders see it before the person does.

My mentor saw who I was before I became it. And so that's the gift of leadership to be able to have that sense of being a leader is equal. Now, it does mean dismantling a little bit of the hierarchy and dominance that we've had in organizations, but we know from looking at good organizations and how they work.

That when we're able to bring out the best in each individual, then our organization has excellence across the board.

[00:10:04] Mahan Tavakoli: I totally agree with that, Juana. However, I see a challenge in our transition to that. So part of what you're mentioning is a need for we rather than I, and that recognition of we, which in part is why I even call this podcast partnering leadership, a view in that there is a partnership, there is value that each party needs to bring to the table in leadership.

Part of what I've seen even more of over the past years is a glamorization of the individual outlier leaders as being the saviors. Whether some of the entrepreneurs that have done great things or leaders and CEOs of organizations, whether you look at the compensation, it has become extremely skewed or you look at the publicity the recognition and everything else.

So while I agree that the way to move forward is more of a we rather than an I. What I'm seeing more in the environment is celebration of I rather than we.

[00:11:14] Juana Bordas: That's an interesting paradox because each person is totally and completely unique. You know that from our eyelashes to our fingerprints.

So, nobody's ever made twice, there's a saying in Spanish and your job as the leaders to find out who that person is, and what are their contributions? What are their resources? By the way, not only the younger generation, but what they're saying, and I saw it on your webcast as well narratives. Sharing our narratives. You begin with our stories. You need to know everybody's stories because if you see one generation ago, we would have known each other's grandparents.

We would have come from intact communities. So one of the great roles of the leader today is to build that sense of identity and community with their people. And bringing people together to be able to do that. Now, it does take a certain amount of practice.

For example, I never like pictures of me just to be me. I like the pictures to be of a group. And sometimes when I'm Googling a leader, if I see just pictures of that person, I know that they are only there because of the people that support them. Because of the parents who invested in them, because of the teachers who taught them, because of maybe the resources that their grandparents left so they could go to a good university and get educated.

And so you have to have a sense of humility and connection that we are only who we are because of other people. And by the way, that's the philosophy of South Africa. It's called Ubuntu. I am only who I am because of other people. And so I would challenge those leaders to take a step back. And to really look at how did I become who I am, who do I need to be grateful for, how did I get here and how can I help others and lift them up?

Because if you're not inspiring and lifting up people, are you really a leader? 

[00:13:11] Mahan Tavakoli: I love that message Juana. And one of the challenges that I talk about in some of my episodes is that our selfie culture has transformed to selfie leadership where the leadership is at the center.

And part of what you're mentioning is that yes, the individuals are unique. However, we are who we are because of others and teams and organizations would be great if we can channel the energy of everyone. not focused on one individual. 

[00:13:43] Juana Bordas: I have a great analogy for you on this and that is American Indians. When they do a basket, when they weave a basket, this is what they told me when I was studying their leadership, every strand has to be strong, every strand has to be woven together for the collective, the basket, the organization, the community, the nation to be strong.

So we're not saying don't be all you can be. We want you to be all you can be. But in the context of community, in the context of your team, and the other thing is when you look at the great advancement of the African American community, they didn't say I shall overcome. They said, we shallow Latinos don't say I can they say see safe weather.

Yes, we can. And so I'm challenging leaders to look at the fact that, yes, we want you to be who you can be, but in service to the community that is what leadership is. 

[00:14:41] Mahan Tavakoli: Juana, I totally agree with that. Then the question is, what is different about Latino leadership? 

[00:14:48] Juana Bordas: I think we also have to transform the concept of power. In the past, as you've mentioned, power has been the individual, right? And collective power is the way that Latinos, African Americans, women, marginalized groups advanced because of their collective efforts.

The power was in the people, not in the individual. The leader had to inspire people to work when they weren't getting paid. When they knew that the thing that they were working for might not happen in their lifetime. So they had to have that vision of the future. I'm working for my children. I'm working for those who come after me.

I'm working to leave a legacy. That's what my mother did. My mother went and worked in the school lunchroom, cleaning floors and washing dishes. So I could become educated. And when I think about that kind of sacrifice and service, how can I not be a leader to follow in that kind of tradition? So what I'm saying is that we have to redefine power.

Power is not about me being in charge. And, the way I define leadership that the purpose of leadership is to create a society that takes care of its people. So whether you're in an organization, the purpose of leadership is to create an organization that takes care of its people because leadership is about people.

And that's what's so important about Latino leadership is that it's a people centered community based leadership that has for 500 years work to overcome obstacles and challenges. And look where we are today. After all those obstacles, 78 percent of the new entries into the labor force in the next decade are going to be Latinos.

We love to work and we have the highest participation of any group in the labor market. If you want to get a job done, hire a Latino.

Because we love to work, where the working class 47 percent of us are still working class. So it's that kind of idea that power needs to be fine. It's the power people have to change their life. It's the power that leaders have to create community. It's the power we have to create the kind of nation, to transform our nation, so that it begins to include all its people.

[00:17:02] Mahan Tavakoli:  How can we make sure that the people that have the power are willing to come along and one group is not threatened by this greater power of people who have not traditionally had that power source?

[00:17:19] Juana Bordas: Great question. The first thing I want to say is there's this thing like we shall not be replaced. Nobody's trying to replace anybody. We want to make the table wider. And we want to have more delicious food from different places at the table. What we're talking about is an add on process.

There's no downside to diversity. And the fact is that half the kids in America already identify as multicultural. And, do you want to be a leader for the future? Because leadership is not about today. It's about looking about what's going to happen in five years and 10 years. And if you're going to be part of this transition where we become a multicultural society, if you're going to become part of this transition, 10, 000 baby boomers retire every day.

And yet the millennials and Z's are the largest generation. By 2036, they're going to be half of our voters. They're going to be an empowerment, and here's something I want to say from my life when I was 19 years old. I saw John F. Kennedy and then he got elected and he said, let the word go forth from this time and place that the torch has to be passed to a new generation of leaders.

Our leaders thinking about that. Are they thinking about the generational transition? Are they thinking about the multicultural transition? Are they thinking about the global transition where our global society is right here? We can weave the fabric of global society right where we are. And so that's probably the challenge, but I would also let them know that diversity is an add on process.

We want you to bring who you are, and we want to take you with us, and we want to incorporate new ways of thinking and leading. And by the way, your grandchildren are going to be mixed. What do you want them to say about you?

Because your grandchildren are going to be multicultural. They'll probably be speaking Spanish. We're the fastest growing Spanish speaking country in the world. There's a benefit. You double your brain power. You get to connect the 26 countries, 

there's no downside in knowing more than one language. 

[00:19:19] Mahan Tavakoli: It's additive. It's not subtracting from one giving to the other. Now, the other thing that you also mentioned is that. Latinos, a lot of times, when they're talked about, it's almost as if it's one group, one unit.

However, Latinos are multicultural in and of themselves. 

[00:19:39] Juana Bordas: Yeah. Studies show that over 30 percent of us identify as mixed, but A fourth of us are Afro Latinos, another 25 percent are indigenous, 42 percent claim their European heritage from Spain and from other countries. My father was French Nicaraguan, so I'm Franciscan, right?

And so what you're looking at is that Latinos are the model for the multicultural state. Century that's rising because we are multicultural. But there's another thing about Latinos is that we have a bienvenido spirit. Bienvenido means welcome. Everybody knows that Latinos are a welcoming group.

And that's so important because diversity has been framed from an exclusive kind of perspective. I want to redefine it as inclusion, as Bienvenido, as welcome, as join us in creating the multicultural future. Join us in transforming and bringing back the American dream, join us in having a workforce that not only works hard, but we have Ghana's, Latinos have passion.

We liked to do things, like that. So that's the difference. The differences is that we are already are a mixed group. We understand the benefits, but we have a bienvenido spirit that says, welcome, join us. In my book, I'm inviting you to become a Latino by Corazon or by affinity.

You know what I mean? That means you can join us because we're a culture and an ethnic group. So if people love the Latino culture, I say, welcome to the family. 

[00:21:08] Mahan Tavakoli: Francis Fukuyama talks about. Some of the challenges that, in his view, the movement around DEI has had, and he says when people see it as exclusionary, then they want to fight it, and he goes back to even Martin Luther King's message, which was very much inclusionary.

We are part of you. You are part of us. We want the same things. So part of what you're saying is that this is inclusion, everyone at the table becoming better as a result, as opposed to excluding some, which is the way that some have presented it. And therefore the message hasn't resonated as well with as many people as it 

[00:21:53] Juana Bordas: could have.

This is an opportunity for growth. For development, for expanding of your own consciousness, really learning to love more in a sense, having a greater bandwidth about who you accept. Now, I'm not saying people don't have to do some healing, like you said, it's hard to make these transitions sometime, but, I also want to challenge them.

I'm Dr. Bordas. Think about how many classes. How many universities I went through, how I started school not speaking English, and how many books have I read about the white perspective or our society, which I am part of. I love the mainstream. I love America. But, I'm challenging folks because, you got to get some skin in the game.

You've got to read books on diversity. You've got to stretch out to other communities. You have to talk to people that are different than you, but it's an opportunity for growth. Let's put it in a positive way, rather than saying, diversely is like getting a tooth pulled or something.

Heck no! It's a chance, it's a chance to participate in our multicultural, beautiful, incredible, universal humanity. 

[00:22:57] Mahan Tavakoli: It is the beauty of the differences, beauty of the cultures. The more we find out about them, the richer our lives become. You also mentioned the need for personal and collective purpose.

Juana, where does purpose fit in with respect to leadership in your view? 

[00:23:18] Juana Bordas: In the Latino community, we believe in destino, which means destiny. , in the high culture, you forge your destiny, you're the captain of your own ship, and we say, yeah, you're the captain of the ship, but the sea has its ups and downs and its waves and so forth.

So it's a dance between your destino and who you are and what life brings you that kind of creates this in my life. Since I was the youngest daughter, and since my sisters and my brothers and my mother and fathers poured their grace into me, I was able to become educated.

My older brothers and sisters couldn't do that. And so even the place in your family where you're born has something to do with what your purpose is and who you are. And the time that you're born in is very important. You have to be a leader that's right for the times. That's why we're inviting leaders today to look at this global multicultural, young world that's emerging.

So your destiny or your purpose has to do that. Now, one of my teachers was Robert Greenleaf, wrote all the work on servant as leader. And he said, another question you ask is how might I best serve, a calling or where has my life been leading? And what are the gifts and assets I was born with?

Obviously I'm an extrovert. I learned to read and write both in the schools and then practice it as my way to make a contribution. I do think it takes some reflection, but remember, you're a 1 of a kind design. They'll never be another person like you.

You have a special contribution to make to this world. And whether it was my sister who sewed beautiful clothes because she learned to sew as a child and she could make a woman look beautiful. That was her contribution. My hairdresser who was the best hairdresser in the Southwest. That was his contribution.

My daughter, who's an artist, , and my mother in her humble way. Who cleaned floors and scrubbed, did the lunch with what a vision, what determination, what stamina, what sacrifice, what resiliency, what ability to leave a legacy. 

[00:25:26] Mahan Tavakoli: It's a beautiful challenge for all of us, Juana, most especially as.

There is a lot of angst that I am seeing in combination of millennial leaders and Gen Z, in that many are not as optimistic and as hopeful about the future as I believe they should be. So from your perspective, what does it take for the younger generation to contribute to the kind of change that you talk about and to be more hopeful about the opportunities that lie ahead?

[00:26:08] Juana Bordas: I have to say that I agree with them. There's this incredible thing with their anxiety over climate change. The fact that they probably aren't going to be able to buy a home. And yet my immigrant family could buy a home in the fifties because you could afford it back then graduating with 30000 dollars in college debt.

Even by the way their life expectancy is going down rather than not. And so I do believe that I want to challenge leaders to say we need to help them today and we need to look at our society and our organizations to see what we can do to ensure that our younger generation has an opportunity to have the kind of lives we have had.

Because we have been able to profit and to benefit from the richness of America. Now, in my work and my new book, I did a chapter on intergenerational leadership and what young leaders are telling me is that we need to have change. Most of the young people that I work with, they understand that we need to do something about wages. We need something about college debt and the cost of college.

I've worked my way through college. That's not possible today. And so I believe we have a responsibility as seasoned leaders, as leaders who have created this. situation that we're in to help the younger generation and to look at what we can do to ensure that their future is going to be brighter than it is today.

[00:27:36] Mahan Tavakoli: Part of what you mentioned, whether it was with the example of your mother or others, When the focus is not only on planting what I can eat and what I can sow, it's contributing to the future.

That is the kind of leadership you're talking about. Thinking about how can we make our organizations and our communities ones that can thrive beyond only our own benefit. the future. Another thing that I wanted to touch on, Juana, is the importance of forgiveness and reconciliation. 

How can forgiveness and reconciliation play a role in trying to bring us together in order for us To create that better future that you talk about. 

[00:28:25] Juana Bordas: I think that's an interesting challenge because for people of color, we have to deal with exclusion, privilege, discrimination, and we need to heal that.

 And I kid around about this. I say I think Latinos say we've suffered enough. We don't want to talk about that anymore. We want to talk about the future we can create today. We want to talk about the fact that we contributed half the growth of America in the last decade, and we're ready to build a new society.

We're ready, and yes, you have to reconcile the past. I also say that Latinos are the only ones who have forgiven our conquerors. 42 percent of us claim our European ancestry. We're proud of the fact that we're Spanish. And yes, I don't even know who my grandmother's father was because there was such an incredible thing that happened with the Spanish and the Indian women.

But, look at who I am because of it. The blood of the conquistadors is in my vein and I'm going to use it to become the most powerful person I can. I've been to Spain, I've reconciled that. And that's what we need to do. We need to reconcile the past. We need to say, yes, that happened, but how can we move forward now?

How can we heal ourselves and embrace a new future? Because it's not going to do us any good to be sitting here gnashing teeth. We need to decide right now that we're going to create that new future and that we're taking everybody with us.

Let me tell you how much fun it is. One of the other leadership principles of Latinos is called Gozabla Vida, to celebrate and enjoy life. And we start everything with fiestas. My Book, launch is going to be on Taco Tuesdays, and we're having tacos and margaritas to celebrate the release of my book.

 And the other thing about Latinos, if you have a party, everybody brings something. So I have a party and I have more food at the end, than I had at the beginning. Because that's what happens when you share. So I'm really inviting people to look at diversity in a different way.

And to really realize that we have an opportunity now, finally. To have a different kind of humanity. We're all here together now, right? Martin Luther King used to say we came over on different boats, but we're on the same boat now.

Some people didn't even come because they wanted to, but they're here now. 

[00:30:42] Mahan Tavakoli: We can together in celebrating the diversity. appreciating each other, build that better future together, Juana. So are there practices that you recommend to be more inclusive? To create better teams and organizations.

[00:31:03] Juana Bordas: We talked about the leader is equal, really understanding that the leader is there to uplift their people. It's not about you, it's about them in a sense.

But if you do that, another leadership principle that has stood Latinos and other communities of color well, I call leadership by the many. And so what happens when you respect people and really look at their contribution and invite them to be part of the organization. Thank you. Or the corporation or team is that you begin to have an organization that has many and I was asked, how do you manage big teams?

I go if you have a shared vision, if people have come together to know what they're doing, which is the number 1 thing that makes you effective if you figured out who's going to do what and whose gifts are what and who needs to do what if you have a common goal and objective. And you have everybody on the team.

You don't have to manage them. They're going to manage themselves, so that whole idea of creating that kind of autonomy because service is not about me doing for you. It's for me, bringing out what you can do for yourself and others. And so that's a very different form of leadership to be the leader is equal and then to create an organization where there's leadership by the many and people assume the responsibility.

Thank you. For making things happen the best they can. So those 2 principles serve people really well. Another 1 that I think is so important is the idea of or yes, we can. And that includes recognizing the immigrant spirit, because that's what they did. They said, yes, we can. We're coming over here.

People that come from these communities have a real sense of innovation of doing more with less. Of being resourceful of having to work together to get there because if it hadn't been my family or my community, I couldn't be here. And so they have that sense that. They can bring to the corporation.

Yes, we can do this. We can be innovative, creative. We can take risk and we do this together. When you look at some of the ways that we have advanced. This is the way that we can create organizations that are also vibrant and engaging people and where people really have a sense of belonging and that sense of being accepted for who they are.

[00:33:08] Mahan Tavakoli: Juana, you have been an advocate, you have written a couple of books, you have revised and rewritten this book. If we look back at some point in the future on the impact that you have had in. leadership what do you want your impact to be? First 

[00:33:28] Juana Bordas: of all, I really want people to understand that this transition of young people into leadership is one of the most important things we can do.

It's time for a new generation of leaders, and we have the responsibility to help them and prepare them for the future. And I think that's across the board that's just something we need to do. But what I'd like my legacy to be is about the fact that Latino leadership and communities of color offer such a rich perspective on how leadership happens.

Think about what, These marginalized communities went through and think of where we are today and the refined forms of leadership. My leaders say to me, that's inspired leadership to be able to inspire people when you can't pay them when it's going to take centuries when they have a job and they got to do it, as extra and we were able to do that.

So I really want in the future people to really look at all the different forms of leadership. I am so grateful to the white men who wrote the original leadership books from whom I could learn and who then encouraged me to write from a different perspective because they were thought leaders.

They knew that the more we have the different models, how we can integrate them, the better we're going to be as leaders. And so I really hope that my legacy is about how Latinos help transform America. How we revamilize the American dream and how everybody in America said, yeah. We can all do this together.

And guess what? I'm a Latino by Corazon now. We're all one people. 

[00:34:59] Mahan Tavakoli: I have no doubt you will be able to continue making progress on that, both because of your message and your energy and enthusiasm, which I truly appreciate, Juana. How can the audience find out more about your book and connect with you, Juana?

[00:35:16] Juana Bordas: I'm on all the social media, including TikTok, because I have such a large following of young people, which I love that they love, an elder like me, and I love them. Young elder 

[00:35:27] Mahan Tavakoli: who on a young elder. 

[00:35:29] Juana Bordas: The other

who's still doing salsa dancing, I'm still doing yoga. I still hike you know I still ski. So let's transform age while we're at it, but yes. So it's Juana Bordas. com. You can get my book on Amazon and it's going to be a bestseller. So get it while it's hot.

[00:35:53] Mahan Tavakoli: I truly appreciate the conversation, Juana. The. Optimism that you have and the insights you have on the kind of leadership it takes from each and every one of us to lead to that better future and have no doubt that you will help lead us there. Thank you so much for the conversation, Juana 

[00:36:14] Juana Bordas: Bordas.

And thank you for what you do and bringing us all together like this.